Grant has 1/13 or 14 for 25-21 and 25-25. 1/12 for 25-20.

I’ve seen all 3 show up in a 25-21. Best to just check it.

I just finished loading 25 .25-25s (say that fast three times!). This is original, never fired UMC brass. After cleaning and annealing I made three loads. With no reliable smokeless data available, I'm starting with black powder and equivalent loads. Load #1 is a duplex of 22gr Schuetzen 2F black powder over 2.3gr of 2400 to make it burn clean, Arsenal 257420 72.5gr bullet and CCI 450 primer. Load #2 is 22.0gr of APP 2F, same bullet and primer. Load #3 is 16.0gr of Blackhorn 209, same bullet and primer. BH209 is pricey, but its my favorite sub - accurate, consistent and clean burning.

I don't have .25-25 loading dies, but that is not a problem. I can use a Lee universal decapping die, a .25 acp sizer to neck size and a .25-20 wcf seater die. But to use the seater, I machined a spacer that slips over the cartridge. Because the cartridge is so long and the die is for a much shorter cartridge. The spacer effectively lengthens the die to accomodate the .25-25 length. It worked perfectly 😀  Off to the range this week to test them with the chronograph.

I've read this thread a couple of times and now I'm confused.  What is the inside diameter of the barrel and what is the twist?   

Although the .25-25 was a "varmint" cartridge, you could try it with breech seated bullets.  A plugged case is all you need. Works well in my .28-30.

Another tight Stevens barrel is on my 44/47 chambered .32-20.  Groove diameter is .309", and yes, I checked it twice.

I really enjoyed the video, thanks for doing it.
Model 44’s were made up until 1932 or ‘33, when replaced by the 417, which is based on the 44 action.

uscra112 wrote on May 16^th, 2023 at 9:55pm:


I actually tested a few loads, all with the same 72.5gr, 30-1 plain base bullet and CCI 450 primers.

16.0gr of Bkackhorn 209 - 1846fps avg.

22.0gr of APP 2F - 1932fps avg.

Duplex load 2.3gr if 2400 under 22.0gr Schuetzen 2F - 1645fps avg.

A single round of 11.0gr of Reloader 7 - 1556fps.

I think this bullet is too soft and light, but its all I have. I need to order some 86-90gr bullets or mold to try out.

Yup, they're all like that.  Spring is just trapped between the hammer and that lug on the lower tang.  Drop the hammer forward of the half-cock notch and it's loose.  Makes putting it back in easy, too.   

Have you considered contacting The Bullshop for some harder bullets?  He'll custom cast with any alloy you specify.

Reading an article about the Harwood Hornet, or .22-20, which he had pushing those velocities, but using "type metal" bullets.   1900 fps was screamin' fast for those days, especially since they didn't have gas checks yet.    

Factoid about the post 1900 model 44s.  The extractor is cammed back a few thou by the front of the slot in the breechblock as it starts to open. "Primary extraction" like high powered bolt guns have. If they'd had that in the 1890s, there might not have been any complaints about hard extraction of the .25-25.

uscra112 wrote on May 17^th, 2023 at 10:43am:


Yes, I was looking at the Bullshop's bullet list. Specifcally the 85gr Winchester bullets. With the very narrow lands and fairly high velocities, a hard alloy seems like a good choice.