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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44 (Read 8091 times)
ndnchf
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #75 - May 17th, 2023 at 11:21am
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Well, in my case the bolts were installed from the right. It looks like the detents on the bolts have been ground or worn down. The lever pivot hole appears to be sleeved, nicely done. I don't see a correspinding notch that the detents would engage from the left Undecided   Nevertheless, the rifle still functions just fine.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #76 - May 17th, 2023 at 11:35am
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The ring you see on the lever is original. They bored into the lever large enough for the ring at the bottom of the extractor, then press the ring in to provide the correct I.D. for the pivot.   

Don't give the detent a second thought if it's already been wiped out.  I've made new pivot bolts three or four times and never bothered trying to recreate the detent.
  

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ndnchf
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #77 - May 17th, 2023 at 3:57pm
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OK, good to know the detent is not critical. I put it all back together with the bolts going in from the left. Doesn't seem to be much difference either way.  I also ran some lead removal cloth patches through the bore to make sure any lead residue from the high speed loads was removed.  Mailing off an order to The Bull shop for hard 85gr Winchester bullets.

I think I'll pick up with Reloader 7, maybe backing off a few tenths to keep velocity under 1500fps.  

The Arsenal mold 257420, 72.5gr bullets I have are soft and well suited to my 25 Stevens and .25-20SS rifles, but not ideal for this one.
  
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Sure shot
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #78 - May 17th, 2023 at 5:05pm
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I wish Stevens hadn’t used a screw slot in the pivot pins, it’s confused a lot of people trying to disassemble the action, the screw slots are often buggered up. 
Stevens published a ballistic chart in the #54 catalog (c1914).
.25-25 muzzle velocity 1551 fps with black and smokeless, 86 grain bullet.
  
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ndnchf
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #79 - May 17th, 2023 at 5:25pm
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Oh, that's neat - thanks. I'm going try to keep loads under 1500fps. No reason to stress the old boy.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #80 - May 17th, 2023 at 5:30pm
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Still amazes me that you get RL-7 to work so well.   

Just noodling around in Quickload suggests 12 grains would get you 1600 fps. with an 85 grain bullet, and at a bolt thrust that will kinder to the gun than my typical 1400 fps. loads of AA#9 in the .25-20.  Fill ratio almost 60%, which should obviate any position sensitivity.
  

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ndnchf
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #81 - May 17th, 2023 at 5:57pm
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uscra112 wrote on May 17th, 2023 at 5:30pm:
Still amazes me that you get RL-7 to work so well.  

Just noodling around in Quickload suggests 12 grains would get you 1600 fps. with an 85 grain bullet, and at a bolt thrust that will kinder to the gun than my typical 1400 fps. loads of AA#9 in the .25-20.  Fill ratio almost 60%, which should obviate any position sensitivity.


That seems about right. 11gr of RL7 gave me 1556fps with the 72.5gr bullet.

I've found RL7 to work to work very well as a black powder equivalent in PISTOL SIZE rifle cartridges. That is all except .38 centerfire (rimfire equivalent). For some reason I could not get it to shoot well. The .25-25 being much longer than a pistol size cartridge, is breaking new ground.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #82 - May 17th, 2023 at 5:57pm
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Very valuable chart there - thanks!   

I want to assume "black and smokeless" means a typical-for-the-period duplex load, but maybe they mean that both types of powder are loaded to the same MV.

« Last Edit: May 17th, 2023 at 6:04pm by uscra112 »  

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ndnchf
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #83 - May 18th, 2023 at 7:08am
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uscra112 wrote on May 17th, 2023 at 5:57pm:

I want to assume "black and smokeless" means a typical-for-the-period duplex load, but maybe they mean that both types of powder are loaded to the same MV.




Yes, that is vague and begs the question. FWIW, my .25-25 duplex load of 2.3gr of 2400 under 22.0gr Schuetzen 2F gave 1645fps avg.  So a little higher. But I was using a 72.5gr bullet. Considering they used a 86gr bullet, that seems about right.
  
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bullshop
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #84 - May 18th, 2023 at 12:03pm
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FWIW   in my experience I have found it easier to achieve acceptable accuracy with plain base bullets if velocity does not exceed by much 1500 fps.   
Of course there are several other factors involved such as rifling twist rate, bullet alloy hardness, bullet diameter in relation to barrel bore/groove diameter, bore condition and things related to the load such as powder type, burn rate, chamber pressure, primers etc.   Yes it is possible to get good accuracy substantially above 1500 fps with plain base bullets so no need to prove me wrong.   All I am saying is that for me it has been easier to get good accuracy with plain base bullets if I set 1500 fps as a limit.  Truth be told I usually find best accuracy much closer to 1300 fps when using plain base bullets.  This has been a reality for a century and a half and is why gas checks were invented so that we can still easily get good accuracy well beyond the velocity limits of plain base bullets.
  
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #85 - May 18th, 2023 at 12:20pm
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bullshop wrote on May 18th, 2023 at 12:03pm:
FWIW   in my experience I have found it easier to achieve acceptable accuracy with plain base bullets if velocity does not exceed by much 1500 fps.  
Of course there are several other factors involved such as rifling twist rate, bullet alloy hardness, bullet diameter in relation to barrel bore/groove diameter, bore condition and things related to the load such as powder type, burn rate, chamber pressure, primers etc.   Yes it is possible to get good accuracy substantially above 1500 fps with plain base bullets so no need to prove me wrong.   All I am saying is that for me it has been easier to get good accuracy with plain base bullets if I set 1500 fps as a limit.  Truth be told I usually find best accuracy much closer to 1300 fps when using plain base bullets.  This has been a reality for a century and a half and is why gas checks were invented so that we can still easily get good accuracy well beyond the velocity limits of plain base bullets.


I couldn't agree more! Thanks for your insight.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #86 - May 20th, 2023 at 7:51pm
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Small victory - turns out that Lyman 310 muzzle resizer and seater dies for the .257 Roberts work just fine for the .25-25, mounted in a standard set of .25-20 handles.  (Had to modify the seater stem a bit to be compatible with a round nose bullet.)   

RMC has shipped my brass.  Due midweek.  Pulled some gas checked 85 grain bullets out of .25-20 stores.
  

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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #87 - May 20th, 2023 at 8:00pm
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That's great. Maybe we should start a "Loading the  25-25 Stevens" thread in the reloading forum. I too ordered some RMC brass  Smiley
  
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uscra112
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #88 - May 20th, 2023 at 9:46pm
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I fear it'd just be the two of us - three if you left that last box of brass at RMC for another participant.  Grin
  

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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Gun show find the next day - Stevens model 44
Reply #89 - May 21st, 2023 at 12:07am
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Actually, I’m waiting to see what you two find out.

The accuracy of my relined and chambered .25-25 Low Wall thus far is nowhere near that of similar relines in .25-21 and .25-20.  Nor have I been able to get any quantum leap in the velocity over what is possible (at least) with the .25-20.

There may, of course be a number of reasons for this not necessarily related to the length of the brass.  So any data from this Stevens, and, if possible from the Rolling Block is of interest.
  
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