Dr. Hudson's Remington;

Ned Roberts and Harry Pope;

Wonderful pictures ! Thanks for posting them!

Is Barry shooting from Beeson's shed at Etna Green?

John P. Lower;

Bob
Thank you for posting those old rifle photos. They are most interesting. Do you have any idea when the photos were taken?
The reason why I ask about photo dates is that photo of Dr Hudson's Remington has a palm rest. Hudson was well known for having a cork pad attached to the forestocks of his rifles and supporting the rifle with his fingertips. It would be interesting to try to research references as to when he used a palm rest in competition. If the photo date was during the Schuetzen era, I might be clue for starting a search.

Typical - did you notice in the Roberts & Pope picture - Harry's shoes are not shined & Ned's glisten?

oneatatime wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 2:22pm:


I read somewhere the "Major" title was not a rank Roberts held, but rather something people referred to Roberts as?

oneatatime wrote on Aug 16^th, 2018 at 2:22pm:


Roberts was NEVER in the Army, NG, or any other military organization!  But he once taught school at a military academy where all the instructors wore uniforms & were referred to as "Major."  Afterwards, his friends, esp. Phil Sharpe, began calling him "Major" as a kind of inside joke, like the men referred to as  "Kentucky Colonels."  All this & more is related by his close friend Harvey Donaldson in "Yours Truly."

from Phil Sharpe's Complete Guide to Handloading;

It says in the artical above that Pope included loading data for each barrel. Do any of these papers still exist.

Randy, this may answer some of your questions;

I recall the first Hepburn pictured had formerly belonged to Dr. Hudson, but at the time was in the collection of Harvey Donaldson, who photographed it as an illustration for an American Rifleman article on old rifles and calibers, written in the 1930s.

The stock could have come with an extra forend, or Donaldson could have altered the forend for his own use.  A picture in Rowe’s book on Hepburns shows a Walker that Remington had made a new forend for in the 1920s.  Donaldson could have had a new one made by them as well.

Love these old photographs from the glory days! Imagine having a display rack of rifles out on the street as in the Lower store photo today! That picture of the doc's Pope rifle got me to wondering what the device that's protruding from the muzzle is. Does anyone know? Thanks for posting these photos, it's rare for me to see them so I really appreciate it.

This is one of my favorite photos, from Phil Sharpe's The Rifle in America;

The things on the wall are probably worth more than most of the guns in the racks. Sure would like to do my decorating with that stuff. Be still my heart....

What I love are the built-in racks for customers to lean their guns in, guns they have brought into the store for whatever reason, and done so without a worry.  Can you even imagine any store, even a gun store, doing that today?

Bill Lawrence

Bill Lawrence wrote on Aug 20^th, 2018 at 8:25pm:


Well, it's quite true a customer strolling in with a gun in his hands wouldn't have precipitated a panic (it didn't even when I brought my High Standard Double-Nine into my Jr. High shop class to make a holster for it!), but I'd assume most of these racked guns were guns for sale.

It wasn't that long ago, because I'm not that old  the podunk town I'm from in south central Montana had a hardware store that had glass cabinets with the fringes like that.  I remember asking my father what these were for, or maybe my dad asked if I knew what they were for...  Raymee, the store owner pulled a greased up '03 Springfield from a wooden barrel and leaned it up against the groove and asked if I understood?  Never gave the picture another thought when I saw it thanks for a refresher Bill!
Greg

I think you're correct Bill. Those are likely for customer's guns so they wont lay them on the glass top cases and break the glass.

There's a small fortune invested just in the glass cases and cabinets in that picture.  Glass didn't travel that far very well without breakage and was needed to fulfill the desire to isolate items from both customers and the clouds of dust present in those dirt and horse manure covered streets, but still provide transparency to let customers know what was available.

Must have been a lot easier to daily knock the grime off the top of a glass case than a hundred plus individual firearms.

As such, there is no doubt in my mind that the proprietor would do everything possible to protect those glass cases, as MG implied.

What a picture!

Hayface

BL,

Perhaps I should have phrased my comment differently, (as usual).  I don't know that protecting the glass with the "fringe" was necessarily THE primary reason, but certainly A reason for what appears to be a well conceived and executed multi-purpose design element.

Regardless, few of us will ever likely see such wonderfully purposeful appointments in a gun shop ever again.  And yes,  it's a sadder statement yet that they would serve little purpose in today's changed world.   

Thankfully, this photo and others show up here and give us a small taste of what it was like back then.

Change, not always for the better!

Hayface

Chuckster wrote on Aug 14^th, 2018 at 10:32pm:


How many of us even own suits like that?

"How many of us even own suits like that?"
And keep in mind, those are wool suits in an age well before  A/C .....

"Curious that all these gents appear to be holding muskets, not sporting rifles." 

Notice the sign under the boar's head. These men are obviously standing around, with muskets in hand, anxiously waiting for the Long Range rifles that they ordered to be finished.

oneatatime wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2018 at 10:14am:


You got that wrong!  It's reserved parking, I recognized that signature!

Everybody talks about the Sharps rifles they worked up, but the sign shows a Winchester. Where are they all at? Rather like to see a Freund reworked M 1876 or something, wouldn't you? 

calledflyer wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2018 at 11:49am:


Especially if this photo was going to be used for promoting the shop.  Looks like a staged photo to me--not likely all those gents just happened to be loitering in front of the place when the photographer came along.

Really quite sad to see those Gun Shops now gone and even more so the smiths who worked on all the firearms as we now have none not a single one in a town with a population over 212,000.

The loss of great gunsmith shops is common all over the USA! And it was caused by people who weren't willing to pay a livable wage for the quality work these good gunsmiths did. Sad, but it's really the main reason they're gone.

I also recall going to a local "gunsmith" to simply have a barrel spun off. I didn't have the tools then, and his work spurred me to get the things I needed to do it myself.
I walked into the shop and was greeted by a caged divider between me and the owner. Odd, but I told him what I wanted and he said he'd do it while I waited. He then put the barrel in his barrel vise and turned around to an oxy-acetylene torch set and began to fire it up with a huge heating tip!
I asked what he planned to do and he told me he was going to heat the action to allow it to spin off easily. I told him he certainly wasn't going to heat my action, and especially with that big old tip! He continued to fire up the torch and I screamed something about what I would do if he touched my action with it. He finally turned the torches off and gave me my barreled action back.
I went home and ordered my barrel vise and an action wrench, and it came off like butter. No heat needed, and I never regretted spending the small amount for the tools to do it myself.

We used to have three great Smith's and they also sold firearms, ammunition, re-loading components etc. They also refurbished, re-built and built new custom firearms. Smithing alone would not provide them a good living and it still won't keep anyones doors open and eading into a nice retirement. We have one left a friend but he only builds high end custom shotguns and rifles from scratch and they are all in the five figure range. 

JLouis

Hayface if one could only do so just for the times all though a bit rugged.

Quote:


Without playing on peoples misfortunes, imagine the prices during the great depression.

JL,

Quote:  Hayface if one could only do so just for the times all though a bit rugged.

Wouldn't it be something to be able to just walk through one of those old shops in that era?

Hayface

Redsetter wrote on Aug 24^th, 2018 at 10:03pm:

Your father spoiled you, Redsetter.
For us, it was part of the chores that had to be done, and we did it for free.   

I worked for my uncle summers, through harvest time. He paid me $10 a day, and we worked a 12 hr. day. It was hot, sweaty, hard work, but I loved it. Not that I enjoyed hot and sweaty, but I just enjoyed ding the work we did. Wasn't all harvest, and that was the toughest part. 
He sold me my first vehicle at 13 yrs. old! Of course with my dad's approval first! It was a '47 International panel, and cost me a whopping $25. I worked on it of and on until I was old enough to get my license. Went to his place the day I got my license and drove it home!

Hayface it indeed would and we had one similar but smaller at one time. Bought a few rifles and shotguns there starting in high school. Had an open account all it took was my name on a file card and pay as much as you can when you can. When one was paid off another one got added to that file card and the Simth half owner also taught me a lot.

JLouis

Wanna bet that those rifles have either Pope or Pope/Stevens barrels?

Can any of the others be identified? I am not sure, but the shooter behind and to Pope's left might be Arthur Hubalek.If so, doubt he would be shooting a Pope barrel. Realy nifty photo, and thanks for sharing it with us.

The white-shirted man with the tie and no jacket, standing behind Pope is Lucian Cary. 
Don't the fore stocks on the two Ballard look like Stevens versions? That's why I postulated the inclusion of Stevens/Pope barrels.

Thanks calledflyer.

Cary, of course, idolized Pope and based his wonderful J. M. Pyne stories on him.  But as one good turn does indeed sometimes begat another, it can hardly be coincidental that the last muzzle-loading outfit Pope made went to Cary.

Bill Lawrence

It's not impossible that the rifle Pope is holding in the photo is the very rifle he made for Cary. 
Look at the buttplate on the engraved Ballard. Lots to see in that photo, kinda like the others in this thread. Thanks for posting 'em guys.

I tried to post the Julia auction stuff myself, but I'm a computer idiot. The reason I say the rifles might be the same is the fact that the rifle was refurbished and restocked after Cary owned it. It was just a possibility, that's all.

You're certainly always safe in saying "might", Calledflyer.  But just to likely settle the issue, Pope delivered the outfit  (barrel # 782) to Cary in 1933; our photo is dated 1935.

Nonetheless, Harry is looking just a tad smug, and one has to wonder what about.

Bill Lawrence

Of course I'm hedging my opinion about the photo. Hell, it isn't like I was there when it was taken, like you
I knew the date, and it could be a screw up as well- Maybe Cary took the old geezer to lunch then out to the range to see the boys. I dunno, and it doesn't matter, it's still a nice photo.

Redsetter,

I'm not 100% sure on the names of men in the photo with Harry Pope, people can be easily missidentified, and names misspelled. I think the man at top left, identified as "Moore," may be F. H. Souther. Take a look at this old photo from Mike Petrov;

Great picture Bob! I do see similarities between Souther in Michael's picture and the guy on the left in the first picture. Even the same style cap on both guys.
I also see similarities between O E Garrish and the fella with the cigarette and both hands on the barrel.

Winchester's barrel shop;

Shiff the Gunman's Front Room;

I can't quite make out how Mr. Neider's scope is mounted.
Looks like one ring, but can't be.
Isn't that his thumb where a very closely spaced mount might be?

Aaron

Schuetzenmiester wrote on Nov 7^th, 2018 at 1:26am:


I enlarged the image up a lot and I can see Niedner's scope has a front ring around the larger belled portion of his scope. But even enlarged I can't make out the ring in Partridge's rifle. I can make out the front base on his gun though, and tell where it's attached. Just can't make out the ring.