Here is the stamp on my Stevens 44 indicating production after April 17, 1894 to 1915.
Stevens never produced rifles 1915 to 1920.
This stamp was used until the new stamp "J. STEVENS ARMS COMPANY" was adopted after 1920.
They quit making the Model 44 in 1932.

There are no records of dates of manufacture for the Stevens based on serial number.
You can only tell if they were produced during the time of the old stamp or during the period they used the new stamp.

Wayne,
Do you happen to have a picture of the barrel address roll-marking on that round barrel that you can post?
I remember some time back when quite a few Stevens heavy round barrels in 22RF were circulating around the gun shows, and that they appeared to be in brand new uninstalled condition. A lot of folks picked them up for future rebarreling projects. I remember the font being small, and located at about the 2 o'clock position, and think I still have one stashed to compare the barrel address with.

texasmac wrote on Mar 18^th, 2018 at 10:47pm:


I've seen un-tapped barrels with the roll stamp off-set, so, unfortunately, this isn't a certain indicator of factory scope-mounting. Neither was the rear sight slot necessarily omitted (except on models 47 & above) when the factory supplied a tang sight.  

But these considerations are moot, because as uscra pointed out, I think the barrel is of much later production than the frame...either because an old frame was sent back to be rebarreled, or because an old (pre-Savage) frame was found in a parts bin & assembled to the new barrel.

Looking at your photo again, the unusually high comb looks like the buttstock was shaped with scope-use in mind. Are the blocks of the Stevens pattern, equal in length (unlike Winchester, etc.), and with noticeably radiused corners?

frnkeore wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 11:20am:


Most I've seen had a flush head screw, and not protruding down like Texasmac's 44 does.

marlinguy wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 11:23am:


Never seen one on which the screw wasn't flush with the frame, assuming it's screwed all the way in.   

Redsetter wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 11:37am:


The only ones I've seen that weren't flush appeared to be custom built screws to make them thumb knobs for easier takedown.

Not quite correct, as I have a 1919 catalog.

They were still selling pre-WWI manufacture rifles to 1919.
I was advised that they were not making the Stevens 44 Model during WWI.   

History[edit]
Stevens Arms was founded by Joshua Stevens with help from backers W.B. Fay and James Taylor in Chicopee Falls, MA,[3] in 1864 as J. Stevens & Co. Their earliest product was a tip-up action single shot pistol.[4]
Business was slow into 1870, when Stevens occupied a converted grist mill and had just sixty employees. The 1873 Panic had a further negative impact on sales. By 1876 the company had recovered to the extent that it was then manufacturing twice the number of shotguns as it had been prior to that year.[5] In 1883 they purchased the Massachusetts Arms Company which Joshua Stevens had helped found in 1850.[1] In 1886, the company was reorganized and incorporated as J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. The business was able to grow steadily with tool manufacturing and sales now accounting for the bulk of the business output.[4]
Stevens and Taylor were bought out in 1896 by I.H. Page, who was one of the new partners and the bookkeeper. Page led the company to significant growth, such that by 1902 Stevens had 900 employees and was considered one of the top sporting firearms manufacturers in the world. In 1901, Stevens entered into a partnership with J. Frank Duryea to produce the Stevens-Duryea automobile manufactured at a separate facility also in Chicopee Falls, MA. In 1915, Stevens led the U.S. arms business in target and small game guns.[4]
On May 28, 1915 Stevens was purchased by New England Westinghouse, a division of Westinghouse Electric. New England Westinghouse was created specifically to fulfill a contract to produce 1.8 million Mosin-Nagant rifles for Czar Nicholas II of Russia for use in World War I. They needed a firearms manufacturing facility in order to accomplish this and chose Stevens. After the purchase they sold off the tool making division, halted production of Stevens-Duryea automobiles, and, on July 1, 1916, renamed the firearms division the J. Stevens Arms Company. When the Czar was deposed by the communists in 1917, New England Westinghouse was never paid and they fell into financial distress.[1][6] They managed to sell most of the rifles to the U.S. Government and keep the Stevens firearms facility operational and did return to limited production of civilian firearms between 1917-1920 while looking for a buyer for Stev

Guys, 

Keep in mind that the same 5-digit serial number is heavily stamped on the barrel, lower receiver tang, on the stock under the buttplate and on the brass buttplate.  Therefore, as uscra112 suggested, if "it has a pre-WW1 frame that was rebarreled at a later date, and fitted with that lovely wood" it was done by the factory.

Wayne

texasmac wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 3:32pm:


No doubt about that--any time a re-barreling job was done, the original ser. no. was almost certainly stamped on the new brl.

Have you identified the blocks as Stevens...or something else? 

Hi Texasmac,
Does your Stevens have the snap ejector or an extractor?
I have a Stevens 44 serial # 77,8xx that appears to have the same barrel as yours with the same markings. It also has the mottled style of case hardening which I have always assumed to indicate later production.
I have only seen one other 44 with a higher number than mine.
Does your rifle have a Stevens trademark stamp on the left side of the frame? I can't tell from the photo.


Steve   

texasmac wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 3:51pm:


Hope you find original blocks. Although Stevens blocks were equal in length, the hole spacings were not equal--because they copied the spacings of Stevens screw-on, non-detachable, mounts.

Hole spacing of front block should be about 22/32s, as well as I can judge using a steel rule, but that's quite noticeably wider than the "standard" Win., Lyman, Unertl, front block.

Redsetter wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 4:22pm:


I assume you mean 22/32" or 0.687", which is wider than the hole spacing of my front block.  Without pulling off the block and using a center-to-center hole caliper, my front block center-to-center hole spacing is approximately 0.555".  The rear block c-to-c spacing is approx. 0.866".  BTW, if I remember correctly, Gail at CPA indicated these were standard hole spacings for Stevens blocks.

Wayne

That's about a Stevens 1 1/2 barrel size, isn't it?

sureshot wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 4:02pm:


Steve,

It has an extractor & there's no trademark stamp on the left side or anyplace on the receiver/frame.

Wayne

BP wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 6:38pm:


Nothing, except maybe the cost of re-tooling. (Also would have said, "company pride," but that, after Savage assumed control, probably ceased to exist.)   

Only way to prove it would be to find some Stevens document providing the correct spacing, but the catalogs say nothing about that.  Seems probable that installers were expected to use the blocks as a drilling template, so no measuring would be required.

Beautiful rifle. Interesting discussion. This is what makes Stevens interesting. My only comment is on the takedown screw. Never saw one on a 44 that wasn't flush. As far as options on Stevens everything I have ever seen indicates that they would prety much build one any way you wanted it if you were willing to pay for it.

I've logged a 44 at 77,454.  After that there are 414s up into the 90,000 range.

texasmac wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 11:06pm:
   

Don't know whether the pitch was different, but the Favorite screws had either a movable swivel (early) or large knurled knob (late) on the outer end.

uscra112 wrote on Mar 19^th, 2018 at 11:36pm:


The receiver hole is not counterbored.  The screw is 1.18" long.  The head is 0.4" long and the threaded shank is 0.78" long.

Wayne

Here's a photo of the barrel stamp.  It's not very clear but the best I could do with my wife's smart phone.  It was taken from the top of the rifle with a portion of the scope in the foreground.

Wayne

Here's a photo of the breech.

Wayne

Screw slot wide enough/deep enough to use a coin as a screwdriver?

Which to me would also explain why the head sticks out so much.

Bill Lawrence

I wondered for a while why the head of the takedown screw on my Enfield Mk.II revolver was so deformed, until I realized it was made to fit a one-shilling piece.   British officers always had change on their persons, because in their Army they had to buy their own meals.

Wayne,
Just found the full round barrel I have...
26" long, breech dia 0.980", muzzle dia 0.912"
The front dovetail is the old larger Stevens width, there is no rear barrel dovetail.
The barrel is drilled for scope blocks, rear block hole spacing ~0.860", front block hole spacing ~0.550", spacing between block centers ~8 5/32".
The barrel roll address looks the same as shown in the picture that you provided, small font, ~1.225" long, all capital block letters, each letter ~1/16" tall.
Caliber roll mark is    22-LONG RIFLE   , ~1.150" long, each block letter ~1/8" tall.
There is no serial # on the barrel.
One other thing that I almost missed...  at the 9 o'clock position, centered ~1/4" forward of the shoulder (barrel to receiver face) there is an extremely faint mark consisting of a circle ~5/32" in dia, with a    20    inside of it, the numbers ~1/16" tall. The mark is so faint that a few passes with 600 grit paper would probably remove it.
That faint marking makes me consider the possibility that the barrels may be from the Savage/Stevens era.

And Gail at CPA was correct after all?

BP wrote on Mar 20^th, 2018 at 5:37pm:


Out of curiosity I drifted out the front dovetail filler & measured the width of the dovetail with a caliper to get an approximate number.  I came up with ~0.480", so it certainly is wider than the 3/8" commonly used today.  And at the same 9:00 position as on your barrel, 3/16" in front of the receiver face there is a ~4/32" dia. circle with what appears to be the left side of a P or R or a similar character in the center.  Because the character is off center to the left, it could be a 2-digit number starting with "1" but that's only a guess.  If it was an alpha character or a 2-digit number the right side has been sanded or machined off.  I forgot to mention it earlier.

Wayne

So, is it fair to say that it’s a late Stevens 44 made by Savage as pictured sometime between 1921 & 1932 with a non-standard Savage barrel, a custom take down screw and possibly a pre-WW1 Stevens receiver?

I'd add that the Swiss buttplate and the quality and outline of the buttstock move this Model 44 further out of the "standard" category and closer to approximating what was once cataloged as the Model 45 "Range Rifle".  Moreover, if you accept this rifle as a factory product, by Savage-Stevens standards, it's an uncommon if not truly rare rifle.

Bill Lawrence

Bill Lawrence wrote on Mar 20^th, 2018 at 10:46pm:


Absolutely!  (With the emphasis on "rare"!)

Don't get me wrong here, because I enjoy the Stevens-minded on this list discussing their pets.  But, with the lack of historical evidence beyond the rifles themselves, has anybody ever tried to assemble somethng like a "guide" to these guns?
I've never owned a Stevens, and after reading the confusing (at least) things about them, I'd be fearful of buying one at anything beyond bargain basement price.* I think that something to direct a purchaser would sure be worthwhile. Just a thought here.

* I'd buy most anything if it was cheap enough

But, with the lack of historical evidence beyond the rifles themselves, has anybody ever tried to assemble something like a "guide" to these guns?

As already noted, Grant's 5 books have considerable information; West's book, while flawed in places, does give an overview; and Cope's book on pistols and pocket rifles would be hard to improve on, and also contains some information that can with care be applied to the contemporary production of Stevens rifles.

The bad news is that all of the above are out-of-print, some for quite some time, and can be pricey.

Is there anything else?  In my opinion, yes.  Cornell Publications has reprinted nearly all of the Stevens and Savage-Stevens catalogs, and offers them at reasonable prices through its own web site and through internet vendors such as Amazon and eBay.  And while the many discussions on this forum have shown that the catalogs are not the end-all of Stevens information, taken together they can give you a good sense of the company's production flow, especially what was standard, what was optional, and at least broadly speaking when.

In any case, their beauty and the high regard that many "old-timers" showed for Stevens single-shots are alone enough to keep at least me looking above the "bargain basements"!

Bill Lawrence

Bill Lawrence wrote on Mar 21^st, 2018 at 1:29pm:


His little summary of Stevens' corporate history is just about as complete as surviving records will permit.

calledflyer wrote on Mar 21^st, 2018 at 2:18pm:


Honestly, it isn't that complicated.  Guns as "unorthodox" as the subject of this discussion don't come along very often.  The fact that Stevens added serial nos. to major parts eliminates most confusion. And most Stevens models just aren't valuable enough to provoke the faking that goes on with Colts.

VASTLY more complicated, for ex., with Winchesters!

It would be a good question to submit to Tom Rowe, and ask him why no one has gotten around to writing a definitive Stevens book.

John Dutcher has accumulated a massive collection of information,  photographs, catalogs, etc on Stevens firearms with the intent of writing a book on the subject, after completion of his book on Ballards. Unfortunately, the time comes to us all, that we can't possibly accomplish all we intended. The time involved to write a book such as the Ballard book,not just a table top picture book, but also a history book that is both entertaining and informative, is a major undertaking. Most have no idea what is involved, and that would be as much or more labor with a subject like Stevens. In reality a labor of love, with very little monetary reward. Hopefully, someone has the love and interest to invest in such an undertaking.  Krag

rkba2nd wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 1:27am:


Not only that, but the only way he got the book published exactly the way he wished it to be was by paying for it himself.  (Although, with the proceeds of his record-setting auction at his disposal, that should not have been too difficult.)  Doubt he could have found any publisher willing to accept the financial risk of such a lavish production.

Wayne, I don't know a ton about these rifles, but find it middling strange that there's no "EX" stamped on the front of the action. Picture of the front of my #45 range rifle - serial no. 229xx

Regards, Joe

As a few members know, I've been building a database of Model 44s, Originally just trying to correlate serial numbers to feature changes from 1894 to WW1.  The .28-30 that Waterman just mentioned is invaluable, because it puts down a time marker of 1900-1903.  I'll never be able to write that book, either, but I'm willing, even anxious, to share.    Got over 100 so far, by trolling Gunbroker listings, Grant, and more than a few which have been contributed by forum members.  Always looking for new entries. 

Have expanded to the post-war period, to include progeny such as the 404/414/417, but the data density is still thin.

Something I find very interesting is the Stevens stamp on the left side of the receiver starts at about 70,000.  

Food for thought.

Phil

jfeldman wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 11:25am:


No consistency to the application (and hence, meaning) of that mysterious "EX" mark; can be found--or not--on almost any model.   

Bill Lawrence wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 11:30am:


Who knows (except him), but, as he sometimes contributed short pieces to the Journal, there was a time when it might well have been donated to ASSRA Archives. 

Bill Lawrence wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 11:30am:


Guessing it will end up in the hands of a Stevens collector, or one of John's many single shot rifle friends. Heck, I'll ask him in May when I see him! I'd love to have all his Ballard data he didn't put in his book!

Speaking of book size & price versus what's too big and too costly.  I just picked up a copy of the relatively new Bruce N. Canfield book on the M1 Garand Rifle.  It contains 872 8.5x11" pages and weighs just under 6.5 lbs.  Now that's a hefty book pushing the almost too big catagory.   

It contains 2,150 photos/illustrations, many in color.  Talk about a lot of research.  Bases on the amount of research & time I spent on my book, I can't fathom the amount of research and untold hours that Bruce spent putting it together.

BTW, the price was $79.32 shipped.

Wayne

texasmac wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2018 at 8:59pm:


And I've always thought Brophy at 600+ p. was a little too much of a good thing!  Rather glad, at this point, I never found the M1 I couldn't live without!  (Actually, I found it, just couldn't afford it.)

Uscra112, I have a 44 no. 36982 25/20SS. It has the J Stevens A &T Co. stamp with boxed x's on each end. It has a 6 o'clock extractor. Hope this helps.

Thanks, Dave.   I already had a line for this one, but didn't know what sights.   What is that front sight?  I can't make it out.

Neat.  Didn't even know that existed.  I'm way behind the curve learning about sights.   

Phil

If you know, who is the source of the reproduction Lyman No. 8 sights?  Thanks!

Bill Lawrence

My reproduction of the 1907 Stevens catalog offers Lyman sights as well.  Even looks like most of the cuts in the page you posted actually originated there.  Or from a common source, anyway.  

Only a very few of the 44s I've logged have Lymans. Which probably proves exactly nothing, except to explain why I've had little cause to learn anything about them. 

[quote author=575E53565D4A4B3F0 link=1521427648/96#96 date=1521989209]I picked up a slightly rough model 44 1/2 (so called -- I don't know enough to tell) in cal 32-40 (!).[/quote]


If the block drops straight down, it's a 44-1/2, if it swings in an arc from a pivot near the front of the action, it's a 44.