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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date? (Read 33250 times)
Schuetzendave
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #15 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 3:11pm
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Not quite correct, as I have a 1919 catalog.

They were still selling pre-WWI manufacture rifles to 1919.
I was advised that they were not making the Stevens 44 Model during WWI.   

History[edit]
Stevens Arms was founded by Joshua Stevens with help from backers W.B. Fay and James Taylor in Chicopee Falls, MA,[3] in 1864 as J. Stevens & Co. Their earliest product was a tip-up action single shot pistol.[4]
Business was slow into 1870, when Stevens occupied a converted grist mill and had just sixty employees. The 1873 Panic had a further negative impact on sales. By 1876 the company had recovered to the extent that it was then manufacturing twice the number of shotguns as it had been prior to that year.[5] In 1883 they purchased the Massachusetts Arms Company which Joshua Stevens had helped found in 1850.[1] In 1886, the company was reorganized and incorporated as J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. The business was able to grow steadily with tool manufacturing and sales now accounting for the bulk of the business output.[4]
Stevens and Taylor were bought out in 1896 by I.H. Page, who was one of the new partners and the bookkeeper. Page led the company to significant growth, such that by 1902 Stevens had 900 employees and was considered one of the top sporting firearms manufacturers in the world. In 1901, Stevens entered into a partnership with J. Frank Duryea to produce the Stevens-Duryea automobile manufactured at a separate facility also in Chicopee Falls, MA. In 1915, Stevens led the U.S. arms business in target and small game guns.[4]
On May 28, 1915 Stevens was purchased by New England Westinghouse, a division of Westinghouse Electric. New England Westinghouse was created specifically to fulfill a contract to produce 1.8 million Mosin-Nagant rifles for Czar Nicholas II of Russia for use in World War I. They needed a firearms manufacturing facility in order to accomplish this and chose Stevens. After the purchase they sold off the tool making division, halted production of Stevens-Duryea automobiles, and, on July 1, 1916, renamed the firearms division the J. Stevens Arms Company. When the Czar was deposed by the communists in 1917, New England Westinghouse was never paid and they fell into financial distress.[1][6] They managed to sell most of the rifles to the U.S. Government and keep the Stevens firearms facility operational and did return to limited production of civilian firearms between 1917-1920 while looking for a buyer for Stev
« Last Edit: Mar 19th, 2018 at 3:23pm by Schuetzendave »  
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texasmac
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #16 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 3:25pm
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BP wrote on Mar 19th, 2018 at 12:27am:
Wayne,
Do you happen to have a picture of the barrel address roll-marking on that round barrel that you can post?
I remember some time back when quite a few Stevens heavy round barrels in 22RF were circulating around the gun shows, and that they appeared to be in brand new uninstalled condition. A lot of folks picked them up for future rebarreling projects. I remember the font being small, and located at about the 2 o'clock position, and think I still have one stashed to compare the barrel address with.


BP,

I'll try to take a close up of the barrel roll stamping.  The font is small.

Wayne
  

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texasmac
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #17 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 3:32pm
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Guys, 

Keep in mind that the same 5-digit serial number is heavily stamped on the barrel, lower receiver tang, on the stock under the buttplate and on the brass buttplate.  Therefore, as uscra112 suggested, if "it has a pre-WW1 frame that was rebarreled at a later date, and fitted with that lovely wood" it was done by the factory.

Wayne
  

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Redsetter
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #18 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 3:36pm
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Schuetzendave wrote on Mar 19th, 2018 at 3:11pm:
Not quite correct, as I have a 1919 catalog.

They were still selling pre-WWI manufacture rifles to 1919.
I was advised that they were not making them during WWI.   


Wasn't WWI per se that interrupted Stevens operations, but the Westinghouse-Russian contract, which ended almost a year before the Armistice--when the Bolshevik's seized the gov't & repudiated all previous contracts. 

No way to ascertain when the guns listed in the 1919 catalog were actually mfg., but a major portion of Stevens' pre-war guns are included, shotguns, rifles, even scopes.  What's conspicuously absent are 44-1/2s and all grades above the plain-Jane 44.
  
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #19 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 3:44pm
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texasmac wrote on Mar 19th, 2018 at 3:32pm:
Therefore, as uscra112 suggested, if "it has a pre-WW1 frame that was rebarreled at a later date, and fitted with that lovely wood" it was done by the factory.

Wayne


No doubt about that--any time a re-barreling job was done, the original ser. no. was almost certainly stamped on the new brl.

Have you identified the blocks as Stevens...or something else? 
  
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texasmac
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #20 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 3:51pm
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Redsetter wrote on Mar 19th, 2018 at 8:57am:
Looking at your photo again, the unusually high comb looks like the buttstock was shaped with scope-use in mind. Are the blocks of the Stevens pattern, equal in length (unlike Winchester, etc.), and with noticeably radiused corners? 


Unfortunately I can't find the blocks that came with the rifle.  The Fecker rings did not lock in/fit the blocks very well so I purchased a set of new Stevens blocks from CPA.  I do remember the original blocks having radiused corners but do not remember if the lengths were the same.

BTW, the new CPA blocks have the same hole patterns, are of different lengths and perfectly match the lengths/widths of the bases of the Fecker rings.

Wayne
  

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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #21 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 4:02pm
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Hi Texasmac,
Does your Stevens have the snap ejector or an extractor?
I have a Stevens 44 serial # 77,8xx that appears to have the same barrel as yours with the same markings. It also has the mottled style of case hardening which I have always assumed to indicate later production.
I have only seen one other 44 with a higher number than mine.
Does your rifle have a Stevens trademark stamp on the left side of the frame? I can't tell from the photo.


Steve   Smiley
  
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #22 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 4:09pm
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No doubt, and other non-standard "irregularities" as well.  But whereas in pre-Savage catalogs, there was a full-octagon option listed ($2 extra), there was no round option specifically listed...probably because there was no demand for them.

I only referenced full round barrels because that's what the poster's rifle has.  Moreover, that such an option was not formally cataloged does not in itself mean that you couldn't order one (ah, for the days when you got what you were willing to pay for); and it certainly doesn't mean that no one ever did.  Also, the barrel looks to me considerably bigger than the standard No. 2 size - say at least a No. 3.  So, since I don't have any Savage-era catalogues, could you still under Savage order any special features at all?

Which brings me back to the buttstock.  Its considerable figure and apparently a higher-than-normal comb have already been mentioned.  But what catches my eye is what seems to be a very subtle perch-belly lower line.

But here's my main point.  We may never be able to settle whether the rifle is a pre-WWI special order, a post-WWI transitional gun (made up from left over parts), or simply a special order Savage-era gun, trying as best it can to be a Model 45.  But I do think we can all agree that it's a prime example of one reason Stevens aficionados exist.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #23 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 4:22pm
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texasmac wrote on Mar 19th, 2018 at 3:51pm:



BTW, the new CPA blocks have the same hole patterns, are of different lengths and perfectly match the lengths/widths of the bases of the Fecker rings.

Wayne


Hope you find original blocks. Although Stevens blocks were equal in length, the hole spacings were not equal--because they copied the spacings of Stevens screw-on, non-detachable, mounts.

Hole spacing of front block should be about 22/32s, as well as I can judge using a steel rule, but that's quite noticeably wider than the "standard" Win., Lyman, Unertl, front block.

  
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #24 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 4:32pm
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Mar 19th, 2018 at 4:09pm:
So, since I don't have any Savage-era catalogues, could you still under Savage order any special features at all?


No mention of special order options in this 1927 catalog--or in the 1919 catalog, either; although that doesn't mean "special favors" could not be arranged for someone with pull at the factory!   
  
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texasmac
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #25 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 5:40pm
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Redsetter wrote on Mar 19th, 2018 at 4:22pm:
texasmac wrote on Mar 19th, 2018 at 3:51pm:



BTW, the new CPA blocks have the same hole patterns, are of different lengths and perfectly match the lengths/widths of the bases of the Fecker rings.

Wayne


Hope you find original blocks. Although Stevens blocks were equal in length, the hole spacings were not equal--because they copied the spacings of Stevens screw-on, non-detachable, mounts.

Hole spacing of front block should be about 22/32s, as well as I can judge using a steel rule, but that's quite noticeably wider than the "standard" Win., Lyman, Unertl, front block.



I assume you mean 22/32" or 0.687", which is wider than the hole spacing of my front block.  Without pulling off the block and using a center-to-center hole caliper, my front block center-to-center hole spacing is approximately 0.555".  The rear block c-to-c spacing is approx. 0.866".  BTW, if I remember correctly, Gail at CPA indicated these were standard hole spacings for Stevens blocks.

Wayne
  

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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #26 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 5:44pm
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Mar 19th, 2018 at 4:09pm:
Also, the barrel looks to me considerably bigger than the standard No. 2 size - say at least a No. 3.  
Bill Lawrence


Bill,

The barrel diameters are: 0.955" in front of the receiver and 0.810" at the muzzle.  It's exactly 26" long with a 1:16 twist.

Wayne
  

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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #27 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 6:00pm
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That's about a Stevens 1 1/2 barrel size, isn't it?
  
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #28 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 6:23pm
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texasmac wrote on Mar 19th, 2018 at 5:40pm:
I assume you mean 22/32" or 0.687", which is wider than the hole spacing of my front block.  Without pulling off the block and using a center-to-center hole caliper, my front block center-to-center hole spacing is approximately 0.555".  The rear block c-to-c spacing is approx. 0.866".  BTW, if I remember correctly, Gail at CPA indicated these were standard hole spacings for Stevens blocks.


If she said that, she's mistaken.  .555 is approximately the "usual" Lyman, Fecker, etc., spacing, which derives from the size & spacing of Winchester's blocks.  The earliest Fecker's were sold in Winchester mounts (or less commonly, Stevens) then Lyman took over Winchester's production, so they became the "standard," even though Stevens' were the first detachables on the market. 


  
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Re: Stevens 44 Manufacturing Date?
Reply #29 - Mar 19th, 2018 at 6:25pm
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sureshot wrote on Mar 19th, 2018 at 4:02pm:
Hi Texasmac,
Does your Stevens have the snap ejector or an extractor?
I have a Stevens 44 serial # 77,8xx that appears to have the same barrel as yours with the same markings. It also has the mottled style of case hardening which I have always assumed to indicate later production.
I have only seen one other 44 with a higher number than mine.
Does your rifle have a Stevens trademark stamp on the left side of the frame? I can't tell from the photo.
Steve   Smiley


Steve,

It has an extractor & there's no trademark stamp on the left side or anyplace on the receiver/frame.

Wayne
  

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