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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Round or octagonal barrels (Read 4545 times)
Grand slam
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #15 - Dec 5th, 2021 at 10:14pm
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Chuck, thanks for the answer to my question. Not knowing how the action was fixtures during manufacturing. What I understand you saying is the action was fixtures action face up and the receiver face was milled flat in the x, & y axis and then the receiver was bored and threaded in the z axis. 
Cheers Richard
  
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JLouis
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #16 - Dec 6th, 2021 at 10:55am
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If the shoulder of the threaded stud and or barrel are in full contact with the face of the action it should be square to the bore. I have also seen the stub being used to dial in the action in a milling vice using a coaxial indicator and or other. Instead of trying to rely on the faces of the action themselves as possibly being square.
  

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Chuckster
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #17 - Dec 6th, 2021 at 11:52am
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Richard, That would work if you have threading capability on the mill.
Generally use the lathe as shown in the pictures.
If the action is pretty well complete, might look at Greg's (GT) fixture to hold the action.
Chuck
  
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Grand slam
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #18 - Dec 6th, 2021 at 9:32pm
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“If the shoulder of the threaded stud and or barrel are in full contact with the face of the action it should be square to the bore.”
JLouis, that will be the first thing I will check.

Chuck, I don’t have a mill unfortunately but do have a nice Clausing Colechester 13x40. I generally farm out what little mill work I needed. I’m in the market for a good Bridgeport though, I know there are other good brand mills out there but when the time comes for my wife to sell my gear she can unload the Bridgeport easier, I think.
Chuck, good pic. GT has it dialed in in that photo...no doubt about the alignment of the threaded section and action face. 
Thanks Richard
  
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SSShooter
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #19 - Dec 13th, 2021 at 8:02am
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calledflyer wrote on Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:52am:
If your aesthetics statement is for real, make it longer= say 28'' or over inches. Just sayin' Roll Eyes

Why is that? Extensive testing of 22RF ammo has shown that anything over 18" is primarily for looks and longer sight-picture as it has no relation to accuracy. If using a scope there is no reason for a longer barrel. 
That said, my shortest 22RF barrel is 23". I like the looks of the longer barrels.  Smiley
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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SSShooter
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #20 - Dec 13th, 2021 at 8:06am
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Grand slam wrote on Dec 6th, 2021 at 9:32pm:
I’m in the market for a good Bridgeport though. 
Thanks Richard

There is a Bridgeport with lots of extras listed in the classifieds. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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marlinguy
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #21 - Dec 13th, 2021 at 10:50am
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Even if I lost velocity, or had a scope, I'd still not own a .22RF single shot with a barrel less than 24", and most of mine have 28"-30" barrels. Beyond the better looks, and sight radius, I like the balance also.
I have a full size Rolling block that came with a new 22" half octagon barrel, and shot very well. But looked hideous with 11" of octagon, and 11" of round on the full sized action. We turned down the round portion, and used a 19" piece of old .45 barrel to press over it, and but to the octagon. It now looks and balances wonderful, and still shoots like it did before. 
If I ever built another .22 single shot I'd use a 22" barrel and the bloop tube extension to do this same thing again.
  

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Merkava
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #22 - Dec 13th, 2021 at 11:04am
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In response to Mr. Marlinguy and his views on barrel length of .22 rim fire rifles, I must be brutally blunt here.
Winchester model 67, venerable classic .22 rifle, 27" barrel.
Pure beauty, elegance and handling.
Single shot!!
  

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GT
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #23 - Dec 13th, 2021 at 1:38pm
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I’m going to open a can of worms here about the length of a 22rf barrel longer than 18” benefiting more than just aesthetics and sight radius.  I have built 14 rifles now for this little cartridge – in single shots, a few more in gate latch and semi-autos and nearly twice that many more in the works, (it’s a disease) all but a couple have barrels that exceed 28”.  Several have 30” RKS barrels, most of these are gaintwist, and several are left hand… a personal preference…  I shoot mostly open sights but that isn’t the sole reason for the extra length.  Once the barrel has been either seasoned, (about 2K rounds fired through it to smooth the bore) or it has had approximately one round for every inch of barrel fired through it before data is collected, I’m not seeing validity to the rumor of a longer barrel slowing down the projectile… My average velocities have increased as a rule -due to the consistent distribution of lube?  I did experiment with pre-lubing the barrel but trying to match the Mfg.’s lube is challenging.   I've had some intense objections about the velocity comparisons I've done because the barrels all differ, but the longer barrels have averaged higher velocities than the shorter barrels using the same ammo when these procedures are followed.   

The other real interesting note with the longer barrel – the velocity Standard Deviation dropped in almost every case.  This is using a LabRadar for data collection.  Several of these rifles have produced consistent single digit SD’s and the vertical string at further distances (250 - 400-yard experiments) has coincided with these results.  Head and tailwind contribute to vertical but in my case, I have a severe obstruction at my range that creates a consistent variance from the 3 o'clock position so my horizontal is generally frustrating at these distances.    
   
There are a few of us locally building/built with these features, there’s more experimenting happening with different chamber configurations and most recently, some changes in twist rates.

I picked up a Pope-Ballard that has a 28” barrel that may have instigated this pursuit, not that I wasn’t already on this path, but the ODG’s had an idea I think.   This rifle gave me some data that made me pursue the subject further, several different brands of ammo gave impressive groups and most gave very low single digit SD’s.   It may be just a Pope thing – but interesting to say the least. 
My 2¢
Greg
  

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Merkava
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #24 - Dec 13th, 2021 at 3:28pm
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GT has obviously expended a lot of time and energy and money into
barrel length velocity testing.
Interesting, but does all the these efforts exceed the practical and 
and realistic use of the .22 LR?
My long range testing was done with a CZ Trainer .22 rifle. It wore 
a Kollmorgen 4X with tiny dot. 
The test was a bench rested rifle to a prairie dog hole at 200 yards.
This was a hold over, hold into the wind excersize in almost futility.
The barrel on this CZ rifle was just at 28". Long by standards.
After an expenditure of .22 ammo, exact amount more then  budget 
Actually called for, a dog was bowled over....
I vote for long barreled .22 rifles.
My Zulu Martini Henry will be 32". 
Some fisherman like short stiff rods, and some like long whippey 
rods.
            It's only a .22, but to each his own.
  

It's not a good idea to start a fight with an old man. He can't run and he can't fight any more. But there is one thing he will do. He will shoot you.  " John Steinbeck"
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calledflyer
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #25 - Dec 13th, 2021 at 5:18pm
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All I will say here is that Merkava has little understanding of fishing equipment. Or .22 shooters. 
I don't get involved with the competitive rimfire guys because the 'serious' centerfire crowd is pretty intense itself, and the double-deuce contingent is about rabid. Carry on fellows. I'm done here.
  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #26 - Dec 13th, 2021 at 5:25pm
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  Poor fellow, overwhelmed by experts.  Cry Wink
  

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Merkava
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #27 - Dec 13th, 2021 at 5:35pm
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No understanding of fishing equipment or 22 shooters.
Send me your resume.
If you were sitting in a restaurant, with a bunch of fellows discussing 
.22 rifles or fishing equipment, would you talk to them the same way 
You do here??
I think not.
Hide behind the computer screen.
You are a legend in your own mind.
  

It's not a good idea to start a fight with an old man. He can't run and he can't fight any more. But there is one thing he will do. He will shoot you.  " John Steinbeck"
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JLouis
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #28 - Dec 13th, 2021 at 5:49pm
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No you are!!
  

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calledflyer
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #29 - Dec 13th, 2021 at 5:51pm
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I don't take bait- how's that for fishing expertise?
  
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