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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Round or octagonal barrels (Read 4546 times)
Grand slam
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Round or octagonal barrels
Nov 29th, 2021 at 11:57pm
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OK guys here’s the givens; I have a Winder Lowall, good tight action. Barrel, Chro-Mo .22 RF, 1:16” and 4 groove ratchet rifling. It will be a serious 100 yd. Benchrest comp. gun for matches with exposed hammer, a rule requirement. All things being equal it come down to accuracy and aesthetics.  Barrel will be around 22” to 24” depending on the bore size. I would like a octagon barrel because I think they look cool but don’t want to give up accuracy, so here is the question. For sake of discussion if I have a round barrel that measures .900” diameter at the muzzle and an octagon barrel of the same length and it measures.900” across the flats it will be the stiffer of the two, but, will it be inherently less accurate because it is octagon?
Thank you,
Richard
  
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n.r.davis
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #1 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 7:13am
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My 2 cents worth and I may be overcharging at that...
I think there is a greater chance of a Octogon Barrel shifting around.  Looking at a Cross Section on a Round Barrel from the center point the Wall Thickness is consistent, not so on an Octogon.  Starting off round and milling the flats as well as turning the taper changes the set of the steel.  My preference would be to have the barrel profiled before any Bore work is done.  Good luck with your Rifle, sounds like it will be fine.  David
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #2 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:52am
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If your aesthetics statement is for real, make it longer= say 28'' or over inches. Just sayin' Roll Eyes
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #3 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 10:32am
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I'm just not sure myself, as I've not seen enough data or testing of round vs. octagon where the round diameter was the same as the octagon across the flats. I would think since the octagon takes a larger blank to be equal across the flats, it might give a little edge, but just can't say for certain.
I saw an old letter from the 1870's written by Major Fulton of the US Creedmoor team, where he wrote C. Sharps company to discuss just this thing. It was Fulton's feeling that round barrels were inherently more accurate than any other shape of octagon or half octagon.
  

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40_Rod
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #4 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 10:45am
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When I am having benchrest barrels fit in the past I have asked the smiths to put the barrel between centers and take off just enough stock to true it and remove any scale / milling marks and thats it. 
Haveing said that my CPA / 49 has a #3 octagon barrel on it and it is supremely accurate. so if you got it in your head you want an octagon barrel go for it. 
Ya pays your money ya takes your chances.

40 Rod
  
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JLouis
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #5 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:21pm
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Thanks for sharing that Ken. 
I have pretty much always shot a 1/2 Octagon to Round 28 inch #3 Steven's weight Douglas barrel off the bench and I still do so.
  

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JLouis
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #6 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:26pm
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Thanks for sharing that Ken. 
I have pretty much always shot a 1/2 Octagon to Round 28 inch #3 Steven's weight Douglas barrel off the bench and I still do so. 
I have bought all of my blanks from Gail at CPA and the last three were all pre-profiled and polished blanks. And Her pricing has alway been well beyond being fair. 
And the barrels themselves have all been absolute Jewels as received and they can actually be rust blued without any need for any additional work other than de-greasing.
« Last Edit: Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:31pm by JLouis »  

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Amoretti
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #7 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:40pm
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IIRC Sellers in his Borchardt book included a statement from Sharps claiming round barrels were superior.   I suspect they were looking at lowering cost?
  
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JLouis
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #8 - Nov 30th, 2021 at 8:50pm
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Amoretti I have personally found that if one has an extremely competitive barrel. If it is round, half octagon to round or a full octagon that no matter how long it is or the actual barrel size. It will easily out perform the one who is actually behind it including the best Benchrest shooters in this Country and or those outside of it.
  

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ISS
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #9 - Dec 1st, 2021 at 1:03pm
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Sellers also referenced a statement in the end of the line of the business for Sharps, that they had proven to their satisfaction that round barrels were superior.  They also said that as a result of that testing that they would only offer full round barrels other than special orders (presumably at extra cost).

Rich
  
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Grand slam
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #10 - Dec 2nd, 2021 at 1:42am
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I want to thank all who have replied. From what I have gleaned so far, at least with .22 RF barrels and maybe all rifles using lead bullets is to make sure that the muzzle winds up at the tightest part of the bore. So I will definitely be slugging the bore before and after profiling it to octagon to find out what the bore contour looks like and go from there. Lapping if necessary.
Thanks guys
Richard
  
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Grand slam
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #11 - Dec 2nd, 2021 at 11:08pm
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One of the things on the action that I will try to check is the threads and action face in relation to the breech block. I’m not sure what I should use for the datum, maybe the back rails that takes the thrust from the case. Maybe fixture the action on the surface plate and sweep both sides. It will be a bit tricky as I understand that the breech block rises on an angle. Also I’ll thread a barrel stub, that will quickly show if the action face is perpendicular to the threads. I’ll smoke the face of the breech block and run it up and see how it fits to the barrel end. By guess and by gosh is the plan.
Any ideas welcome.
Richard
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #12 - Dec 3rd, 2021 at 2:29pm
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My general purpose barrel stub. 
First use it to apply pressure to the breech block to lap the breech block shoulders to assure uniform contact.
Next use it to lap the face of the breech block to assure it is perpendicular to the bore.
Usually less than .001" material removed. Not sure it is required, but makes me feel better.
Chuck
  
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Grand slam
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #13 - Dec 5th, 2021 at 12:17am
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Thanks Chuckster. I need to figure out a way to find out if the receiver threads are perpendicular to the bore.
Cheers Richard
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Round or octagonal barrels
Reply #14 - Dec 5th, 2021 at 12:21pm
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Not sure I understand the question.
The front of the receiver is faced off in the same setup used to thread the receiver. This becomes the "X" axis reference for all other cuts on the receiver.
The barrel stub shank is cut concentric with the threads and a known diameter. This becomes the "Y" axis reference for all other cuts on the receiver.
The barrel stub shank also establishes the "Z" axis.
If the barrel is threaded concentric to the bore, everything should come out pretty close.
Chuck 
  
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