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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Traditional Rifle rules revisited (Read 38254 times)
SSShooter
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #45 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 5:23pm
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The primary reason they could pay 'good money' for prizes back in the day was there were often large crowds of spectators who paid to get in. Don't think we will see that again any time soon. But, I do think having $$ prizes would help draw folks to shoot. Anything that helps pay ones overhead for shooting is a plus.
  

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.22Hepburn
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #46 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 6:14pm
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"If you don't like the idea of a money prize, how about a decent basic repro-type prize rifle awarded to an entry-level category of shooters. 
They are the ones that need the incentive to pursue Schuetzen, not the old-timers who already have their accumulation of toys."
This sounds like a good start, tho I think the costs involved for younger shooters to acquire a suitable rifle and all the gear is a major factor, especially if they have to get the ok from the wife......

  
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JLouis
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #47 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 7:52pm
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It would be difficult to hang money on the wall, then to tell your grand children for example I won that at a specific match way back when. Money also tends to bring the worst out people as well. With the number of 250's being shot and to keep everyone honest a moving backer would need to be utilized to count the record shots. A medal or something on that order I personnely feel would be the better route to take. 
Changing the scope rules to me would be a huge mistake, the current has been working just fine. What needs to loosen up a bit is the choice actions for the new fellows to build a traditional designed rifle off of. As stated earlier they were once accepted and now they are not. Those gentleman who built them during that period of time or had them custom built were forced into the open class. Understandably there are folks making new replica actions that don't want here this but for most especially the young folks there pockets are not deep enough. We do not want to start an elite expensive seperate and difficult to abide by rule we group, we just need to make the current T class rules more affordable and to recognize it as a class all it's own. We could take some lessons from the jacketd bench rest organizations on class separations and awards.
« Last Edit: Jun 18th, 2013 at 8:15pm by JLouis »  

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frnkeore
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #48 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 8:58pm
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John,
I don't have anything against moving backers. CBA uses them for there regionals.

A $20 metal hanging, a $2000 prize, and a article about it would be something to tell the grand kids about. Then tell them "you know how much that is in today's money?", I think they might appreciate that more.

I don't understand the logic of mixing pre 1917 with post 1917. If it's suppose to be 1917 and earlier then, that's what it should be. 

The new shooter can shoot in the open class with their FBW and Rugers and then move up like all other competitions do.

Frank

  

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JLouis
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #49 - Jun 18th, 2013 at 10:04pm
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Frank what brought me into this game was the charm of the traditionally designed rifles, they were then and still are now something to behold. This love affair goes back to the 70's and it took me another 30 years before I could afford to buy a legal per the rules Traditional rifle. The open class rifles do not have any charm and my fight is for those who are in the same predicament I was at that point in time. That is the point everyone seems to be missing, it isn't about me and a FBW's action it's about those young folks wanting an affordable rifle with charm and those that already own one whom were kicked out of the charming rifle class. I read all of concerned conversations about getting the younger folks involved in this sport to carry on our tradition yet no one is willing to open the door to let them and I see it as being very hypocritical and for selfish reasoning's.
  

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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #50 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 11:01am
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Young folks?

JackHughs
  

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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #51 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 12:38pm
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Yep young folks the lifeblood of the future. I have taken several young adults out to shoot my rifle over the years, both young men and young women alike. Some were in their late high school years, others in college and others co workers married and trying to raise a family. The all extremely enjoyed the time at the bench, a love affair of sorts and not a one of them could afford to buy what I had. They are were those young individuals that we often talk about in regards to filling our shoes. I always take my 52 Stevens CPA to our yearly Turkey Shoot and several of these ypund adults have put a Turkey on the table while using it both offhand, a 6 inch floor tile hanging diagonally at 200yds and off the bench a 1 inch Lifesaver hanging on fishing line swaying gently in the breeze at the same distance with no backer to judge the misses. One year a young man of 12 years of age took home a Turkey and 2 Chickens the event limit with my 33-47 Bresien in the 200yd offhand event. It took him 3 shoots to accomplish this remarkable feat. This after he got used to the rifle off the bench to insure he could safely shoot it offhand. My oldest grand daughter now 21 filled the table for several consecutive years with both Turkey and Chickens in the 200yd. Lifesaver event. Those are just a few additional examples of young adults who had a brief love affair shooting a traditional rifle that have since grown up without deep enough pockets to now get their start in this sport. 
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2013 at 12:53pm by JLouis »  

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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #52 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 1:36pm
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JLouis wrote on Jun 19th, 2013 at 12:38pm:
Yep young folks the lifeblood of the future.


I estimate the average age of the schuetzen shooters here at the Modesto Rifle Club to be in the high 60's.  We have not had had any "young" persons join that group in the twelve years that I've participated.  However, we have lost a number of shooters to death and physical infirmities.

I would wholeheartedly support any rule change that would actually inspire young persons to take up the sport but, like John says: it's the money and time - not the rules - that stand in the way.  A person who cannot afford the sport given the current rules will not miraculously realize more wealth or time if FBW rifles are folded into the traditional class.  As Hamlet might say "Therein lies the rub."

And, sadly, the "younger" (under 50) members of our club are all lathered-up over tactical (handgun and rifle) shooting and are, to some greater or lesser extent hostile toward our "old farts" sport.

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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #53 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 2:15pm
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Lets leave the FBW out of it at as it seems to be a burr under every one's saddle and they seem to keep missing the point. Lets replace it with let's say Blindeye's used Ruger #3 for an example or possibly some other inexpensive action the rules explicitly rule out out of the class. One could possibly look at one of the ready to shoot Italian 1885 traditional sporting rifles with double set triggers or a single offered in 32-40 as an other example but it would require yet one more class be developed to be competitive along the lines of an off the shelf production class rifle. It probably would not get any more affordable than what the already have to offer the sport.
  

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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #54 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 2:50pm
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I started this sport in 1985 as a mere child of 40 and had enough interest and money to get into it. A few took me under their wing but, to most, I was just "under foot". But, nothing would stop me! That is the attitude that a new shooter must have to get started.

So, I think maturity may be one part of getting people into this. It also takes a love of accuracy and not how many rounds you can put down range and the dust cloud you can make.

I spent 10 years trying to recruit people for our club, JSSS. I only found about 10 that were interested enough to shoot in a match. All they had to do is sit down and shoot, I would supply everything else. I think that maybe the biggest part of the equation is, they need to have a competitive sprit.

Like Blindeye states, "where there is a will, there is a way". Besides money being "Traditional" prize, it's also a motivator of the young. If you could say "look how much money you could win", I think it could be a very good "hook" to draw them. 

After all guy's, you can't take it with you Smiley

Frank

  

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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #55 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 2:58pm
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John,
You make a very good point. I believe the Italian SS's will qualify for the Traditional class. Instead of buying a $300 - 800 scope, they could snag a A5, 438 or 5A off Ebay and have a qualifing rig, ready to go.

Frank
  

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Walter  Matera
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #56 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 4:09pm
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Especially since the Uberti 1885 already comes with a palm rest and in 32/20 caliber.  All it needs is a traditional scope and it's ready to go.  I'm thinking about this one . . .
  
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #57 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 4:49pm
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Some of those posting to this thread are too hung up on what rifles/actions qualify for traditional class, IMO. The only places where traditional class vs. open class really matters, are the main ASSRA, ISSA and WSU matches. What people do in their local club is up to that club. Our club here in the Phoenix area does not distinguish between classes, you shoot what ya brung, the shooter with the most points at the end of the event, wins. Some of us use traditional class gear, others shoot open class gear. If you and/or your rifle are not capable of putting 10 shots into the 25 ring (or at least the 24 ring) at 200 yards, you are not likely to win. We encourage and try to help new shooters get their rifles up and running, regardless of what type of single shot they want to shoot.
Frank
It’s my understanding the Italian SS (High Walls) do not qualify for traditional class for the same reason the FBW action does not qualify. Superficially, they resemble a Win High Wall but the action internals are not even remotely similar to the original Win design. BUT if your local club wants to allow them to shoot in your matches as traditional rifles, I say, go for it.
  

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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #58 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 4:55pm
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Randy,
I've only seen one Italian HW in person and lots of pictures. I was assuming they were built to the original design because of the looks.

The RB's look like they may make it?

Frank

« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2013 at 6:58pm by frnkeore »  

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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #59 - Jun 19th, 2013 at 5:56pm
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Look at the parts diagram the Uberti High Wall is very close to the Winchester the major difference is it uses a flat spring to hold the lever closed. The FBW action is nothing like a Winchester!
Cheers,
Laurie
  

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