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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Traditional Rifle rules revisited (Read 38244 times)
BP
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #15 - Jun 13th, 2013 at 11:03pm
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Boats wrote Quote:
Make traditional two classes offhand & Bench. Bench Muzzle and elbow rest only.  No mechanical rest only adjustment elevation screw. Its the only thing that can touch the rifle except the shooter.

Scope rule out anything but original or replica of pre WWI models. No clicks no bell objective lens power limit too  


I like it. 

For the scopes, objective and ocular same approximate diameter as main tube (like a Parsons long scope for a repro example). Use the old Stevens scope catalog to see what was max power they listed available. Easy to turn out a set of non-click knobs for external mounts so they will be straight micrometer.

  

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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #16 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:25am
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Gentlemen,
I think the easiest way to define a Traditional Class is to specify pre-1917 rifles/equipment and faithful reproductions thereof. "Faithful" meaning correct to the patent, not interpretations. This is the definition of the Traditional Class in the WSU; we have made specific allowances, by name, for Unertl, Lyman and Fecker scopes. Given that the source of supply for pre-1917 scopes has improved dramatically, it would make sense to toe the 1917 mark. Let the shooters research what was available prior to 1917; this way, we all learn something and it doesn't require a 50-page rulebook.

It is important to note that no one is being turned away from a match because of equipment. It either falls in the Open or Traditional Class if it is a single shot shooting plain base lead bullets with whatever sights, at least under WSU rules. And...as a nod of support to the Traditional rifle and sights, it is possible for one to win both Open and Traditional classes with a Traditional rifle.

Steve
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #17 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 6:53am
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So does the "Traditional ... " include having to use traditional vintage moulds, powders and primers?

Smiley

Obviously humor; but illustrative of WHERE one draws the line.

  

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40_Rod
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #18 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 9:46am
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Personally I have been trying to shoot in a more "traditional manner" when I shoot offhand.  I am shooting my offhand rifles with a MVA scope in original Winchester mounts. The rifles are a CPA model 52 and a Schoyen Ballard re-barreled by Ballard. I do however shoot smokeless powders and semi-spitzer bullets. This is my own personal voyage of discovery. To see if I can measure up to the old time shooters. I fully understand that this is my personal interpretation of "traditional". I shoot in open class, as I believe that in offhand its the man not the equipment. I fully believe that the really good offhand shooters can beat the crap out of me whether they shoot a Miller or a Rolling Block.
I understand the push for "tradition" it really does honor the spirit of the the founders intent. The part that makes me queasy is the "Amishness" of the "Traditional" movement.  Where does it stop? We are fracturing ourselves into smaller and smaller units. First it was ASSRA then ASSRA and ISSA, then ASSRA, ISSA and WSU and now we want to add traditionalist and modern to the fracturing? We should be trying to come together not dividing ourselves into increasingly smaller units. Pretty soon we will start getting scores for the Noah's Navel primitive free-range no artificial additives added single shot rifle match. 
I applaud the idea of trying to shoot with equipment, that at least superficially, is like what was shot during the golden age. But I believe the choice should be personal not mandated. 

40 Rod
  
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #19 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 9:50am
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40 Rod, Well put and the direction I think we ought to go. Have been staying with the B5 too and offhand it's not a negative.  Only thing I ought to get out of staying fairly close to tradition is a "T" behind the scores match results. No sense in splitting hairs when so few rifles are shooting anyway.

Boats
  
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #20 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 10:58am
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40_Rod wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 9:46am:

...
Pretty soon we will start getting scores for the Noah's Navel primitive free-range no artificial additives added single shot rifle match. 
...
40 Rod


Ahhhhh, I can see the King Target now ...  closest shot to the Navel wins!

  

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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #21 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 11:00am
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We must not forget about Coors who provided unequaled matches and oportunities to all competitiors natiom wide from 1982 thru.1995 at which time they turned the reins over to the newly created ISSA at their last match at Raton in order to carry on the tradition. It was not an organization founded on the basis of discord between organizations. It is the flavor of there early matches that has become lost that some feel should return when talking about the traditional style of rifles. It is not about creating something that never existed, it is simply about bringing it back to life. I am not exactly sure when Coors first started their support of the Schuetzen events prior to them bringing it back to life but I do believe it pre dates the founding of the ASSRA?
  

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Walter  Matera
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #22 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:28pm
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40 Rod, you have made my morning.  That is precisely the route (with the addition of paper patched bullets) that I want to take.  My competitive spirit will be vented only against my last score.  At a match, I'm mostly there for the beer and sausages!  Grin
  
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #23 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 12:33pm
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JLouis wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 11:00am:
We must not forget about Coors who provided unequaled matches and oportunities to all competitiors natiom wide from 1982 thru.1995 at which time they turned the reins over to the newly created ISSA at their last match at Raton in order to carry on the tradition. It was not an organization founded on the basis of discord between organizations. It is the flavor of there early matches that has become lost that some feel should return when talking about the traditional style of rifles. It is not about creating something that never existed, it is simply about bringing it back to life. I am not exactly sure when Coors first started their support of the Schuetzen events prior to them bringing it back to life but I do believe it pre dates the founding of the ASSRA?


Interesting John, 
Just where did you get  info like that ?.
And why do you think Coors turned over the reins to a "newly created" ISSA and not the ASSRA that was in the game since 1948 ?.

Since you seem to be giving us a history lesson please let us know why there is three Schuetzen associations, why not just one like the NRA has to handle the different disciplines of Single Shot Shooting. 

Can't wait to learn more of the history story. Or are you trying to re-write history so it's to your liking.
  H. M. Pope
  
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #24 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:00pm
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It is discussed in detail in the January 1996 Vol. 41- No. 9  Issue of Precision Shooting. A 14 page article worthy of reading.
  

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H. M. Pope
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #25 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:18pm
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JLouis wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:00pm:
It is discussed in detail in the January 1996 Vol. 41- No. 9  Issue of Precision Shooting. A 14 page article worthy of reading.



Thanks for the Info John, I'll have to find a copy, sounds like an interesting article.
 
I guess if it's was in Precision Shooting it must be true.

Being that Precision Shooting went belly up  does anyone know what happened to all the back issues they used to have ?.
  H. M. Pope
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #26 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:30pm
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You are welcome HM and the folks over on Benchrest Central might be helpful in locating back issues.
  

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H. M. Pope
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #27 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 2:05pm
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JLouis wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 1:30pm:
You are welcome HM and the folks over on Benchrest Central might be helpful in locating back issues.


Thanks again,
I know some of the top shooters over there, some of them may know what happened to Dave the editor of PS and how to contact him.
  H. M. Pope
  
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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #28 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 5:00pm
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The PS Article has more in depth detail on the transition including the names of those first entrusted with responsibilities. It is also interesting that at this point in time during the meeting there was reference made to possibly affiliating with one of the current Benchrest organizations. The article if you can get your hands on it is worth reading and more descriptive than the introduction link to the ISSA site. A close friend was one of those first individuals chosen and when time allows I will pick his brain for any additional none published information.
  

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Re: Traditional Rifle rules revisited
Reply #29 - Jun 14th, 2013 at 7:30pm
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JLouis wrote on Jun 14th, 2013 at 5:00pm:
The PS Article has more in depth detail on the transition including the names of those first entrusted with responsibilities. It is also interesting that at this point in time during the meeting there was reference made to possibly affiliating with one of the current Benchrest organizations. The article if you can get your hands on it is worth reading and more descriptive than the introduction link to the ISSA site. A close friend was one of those first individuals chosen and when time allows I will pick his brain for any additional none published information.



John,

Would it be possible to scan and post the article?

Bob
  

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