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John in PA
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Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Nov 12th, 2023 at 2:24pm
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Detailed procedure, or a referral to a gunsmith offering same, would be much appreciated! ☺️

Originally .38 Extra Long RF. I can easily make cases out of trimmed .357 Maximum, and already have an Accurate Molds heel bullet mold and mouth crimper that I'm using in a .38 Long CF in a dandy No. 1 Rolling Block. Just would like to awaken the long-slumbering Phoenix!
  

John Wells
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ndnchf
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #1 - Nov 13th, 2023 at 2:39pm
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As an alternative, have you considered converting some .38 brass from centerfire to rimfire? This is one I made for a .38 rimfire rolling block. It takes a .27 cal nail gun blank. This may work in your rifle, it just depends on the position and shape of your firing pin tip.
  
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John in PA
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #2 - Nov 14th, 2023 at 12:20pm
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Interesting idea! Did you just drill out the center of the a proprietary .38 CF case and then cut a rim recess and notch for the pin, or did you make from solid brass bar stock?
I believe the nose of the firing pin is large enough diameter that if I just modify the contour to flat tip, it will strike adequately.

I assume propellant must be removed from the Ramset/Hilti blank so that just the priming compound remains. What is safest and easiest way to accomplish that task?
  

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ndnchf
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #3 - Nov 14th, 2023 at 12:42pm
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I only dabbled with the 38 rimfire a little, but I've converted a lot of .25, 32, .44 and .50 cal cases from centerfire to rimfire with this method. I use a centerfire case and drill it out for the proper rim recess, just deep enough so the blank's rim is flush with the back of the case. I then mill or file a relief slot for the firing pin.  Here is a photo with the blank removed.  Using a 150gr heel bullet from Old West Bullet Moulds and a brown .27 cal blank with no additional powder gave me 752 fps out of my #2 Remington rolling block.  A nice easy load.
  
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ndnchf
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #4 - Nov 14th, 2023 at 12:49pm
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This is me shooting an original, but refreshed .38 rimfire cartridge.

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John in PA
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #5 - Nov 14th, 2023 at 5:07pm
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I can't find dimensions for the nailgun cartridge anywhere. Can you mike the case body and rim diameters for me when you have a chance? 

Also, I noticed that Hilti and Ramset both make .27 cal nailgun blanks and the local Home Depot carries both. Are the colors and loads comparable, as far as you know, i.e. is there an industry standard for interchangeability?
  

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ndnchf
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #6 - Nov 14th, 2023 at 6:31pm
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Here is the body and rim diameters of the .27 cal blank. Yes, the color codes are industry standard, so either should work.
  
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John in PA
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #7 - Nov 15th, 2023 at 12:44pm
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Thanks a million! 

Good video presentation, too!!

Locally it seems the green (#3 load) is the weakest one readily available in .27. Use it as is in a sound gun, or dump propellant and use as a primer for 3F black?
  

John Wells
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ndnchf
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #8 - Nov 15th, 2023 at 3:51pm
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Green are a bit hotter and will be more difficult to remove after firing. Emptying them and using a separate charge is good, but they can be difficult to open up. I use compound army surplus wire cutters to snip the crimped nose off.  The easiest thing is to buy some brown blanks off Amazon. These are the ones I bought.

0.27 Caliber Brown Shot Strip Loads, Power Fasteners Actuated Powder Loads (100-Count) (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

  
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John in PA
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #9 - Nov 22nd, 2023 at 1:48pm
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17/64" drill bit for drilling out the primer pocket?   

Rim relief, .315" (8mm bit) or .316" ("O" bit) ?
  

John Wells
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ndnchf
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #10 - Nov 22nd, 2023 at 2:03pm
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John in PA wrote on Nov 22nd, 2023 at 1:48pm:
17/64" drill bit for drilling out the primer pocket?  

Rim relief, .315" (8mm bit) or .316" ("O" bit) ?


Yes, 17/64 and letter O.. In a perfect world I like the main hole to be a few thousandths smaller than the blank. That way I get a nice press fit. You may need to squeeze the blank very slightly to make it a little oval shaped, or retain it with loctite. Most of what I shoot use .22 blanks. For those I use a .224" chucking reamer for that nice press fit.
  
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ndnchf
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #11 - Nov 22nd, 2023 at 2:09pm
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I have a 2 part video series on converting .22 Hornet to .25 Stevens. Part 2 cover the centerfire to rimfire conversion. While this is for a .22 blank, the basic process is the same for .27 cal blank.

Since making this video, I now drill the rim recess on the lathe. The video shows doing it on the drill press.

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John in PA
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #12 - Nov 23rd, 2023 at 7:50am
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I have a cheapy Smithy lathe and collet set. Hopefully I've got a collet that will adequately stabilize the .357 Max head for drilling and recessing.  I'll post pics of the process under the reloading thread once I get one of those scarce "round tuits." Wink
  

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John Taylor
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Re: Whitney Phoenix RF to CF conversion?
Reply #13 - Nov 28th, 2023 at 8:20am
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I have a Phoenix rifle in 40-50 SS. If I had your rifle I would move the firing pin and not do the rim fire stuff. I had a rim fire in the shop a few weeks ago that the firing pin was not hitting the primer enough to set it off and ended up making an off set to the firing pin to get it to work, that's what the customer wanted.
  

John Taylor   Machinist/gunsmith
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