I have been developing an interest in this rare gun which was made in the 1850's and 60's.  Been studying what I can from internet sources, but that being limited, am looking for more help.  While some don't consider it a very good looking gun, I find it interesting and in the same class as a Remington #7 rolling block since they both were made with variations from a pistol.

There are several variations of the rifle and pistol and I believe they were all breech loading percussion guns.  Variations being in frame modifications, stock attachment and primer feeding patents.  There is also a couple pistol frame sizes, but I am interested in the smaller frame, although from what I understand the parts were basically designed the same, but will not interchange between the two sizes.  Also, apparently after WW1 someone took around 20 rifles, made pistols from them and were very well done, so these are out there and would also help me.  

What I am asking for here, is for anyone that has detailed information on these contact me.  The ideal situation would be if someone that owns one would contact me and be willing to answer detailed question on the gun.  The possibility of disassembling the gun would be really great but not necessary.  Maybe someone has photos of the inside workings and they would be appreciated as well.  I have contacted several folks about the gun that I thought might know where one might be, but so far have had no luck, so was hoping someone here may be able to help.  Possibly one of you knows who owns one and would see if they would be willing to talk.

Please PM me if you would prefer, over posting on the open forum.

So everyone knows what the gun is and what I'm looking for, here are pictures from Rock Island Auctions of a rifle.  Pistol picture is from an internet article.
Thanks,
Bob

It seems to me that roughly 20 years ago, somebody like Franklin Mint made a full-size, functional, but pot metal copy of the pistol.  IF I'm right and IF you could find one, it might serve as a model for somebody like our Rodney to make a set of basic action castings, modified to take a scaled-down version of someone's current Model 1874 firing pin assembly.  From what you've shown us here, Bob, I'm sure you could take it from there.

Bill Lawrence

There are many internet photos of the pistol.  One, for example, shows the frame with the grips removed and the mainspring set-up clearly visible.  Others show the breech block with its heavily-rounded corners from both the top and the bottom.   The action is clearly a simplified version of the rifle's without the added complexity of a side-plate-mounted lock mechanism.

You can do this, Bob!

Bill Lawrence

Sorry. Bob, I'm not computer literate enough to do that.  But if you google "sharps breech loading pistol images", you should find it.

Bill Lawrence

I'm sorry, Bob; I sometimes don't give very good directions.  So I'll try again.

Google "sharps breech loading single shot pistol images".  When they come up, click on "view all".  The photo I'm referring to is the 114th image in the expanded set, 8th after the photo of Seller's book.  Click on that image, then on "view page", and you will be lead to a closed auction (sale # 100982311) on the Guns International site.  You can still play with the photo set for that auction, several of which may be of interest to you.

I really hope that this time I'm of help.

Bill Lawrence

Many, many thanks, John Wells!

Bill Lawrence

I've always assumed that the rifles used musket-size nipples while the pistols and pistol-based rifles used revolver-size ones.  But I don't know that for sure and so I can't answer your first question.

But I can positively answer the second, having actually done so on many occasions with a Schoyen-rebuilt Model 1859:  you certainly can use a standard musket cap.  In fact, it's my understanding that many Civil War participants preferred to do so.

Bill Lawrence

I don't know much about the tape system but did find this on Christian Sharps patented pellet system that was used on this gun.
Bob

Bill, Before posting my question here, I think I had enough information to start on the frame drawings but really nothing on the internals.  While I had some idea what the inside might look like, I was hoping someone would pop in here that had a gun or access to one and clarify things for me.  Although, that hope is fading fast!   The help here, so far, has moved me down this road a bit further though.  Many probably think it’s crazy even starting down it!   
Bob

Wish one more person would step in with a picture inside of this animal.

That’s  a good thought Bill.  First, I’ll give this a bit more time to see if something comes up.
Bob

I now have internal pictures.  It confirms my assumptions of it being very similar to a simple muzzleloader lock.  Nothing really surprised me except the fly and how really, really small this gun is!  If you look at the front of the trigger there is a screw pointing at the tumbler.  The owner could not tell me if the end pushed against the tumbler, but I’m assuming it does, and is an adjustment for sear engagement.
Bob

Congratulations, Bob!  I knew you'd get at least some pictures somehow. Also, if the fly acts on anything, I'd think it would be the trigger.

Bill Lawrence

calledflyer….by the time I got these pictures it was already back together.  I felt very lucky to have gotten them.  Had questions but it was to late, he did want to take it apart again.  He has been very helpful and really appreciated 

Greg, not a set trigger and that’s why the fly surprised me.  I’m with you….and wonder if it will be necessary.  Don’t know about the trigger pull but looking at the spring, and it’s geometry against the trigger, I wouldn’t doubt it might be high.

Working on a mock-up in plastic.
Bob

No, have not seen the one on GB.  I had looked but found nothing, just looked again and still don't see it.  Can you post a link?
Thanks

Sorry I'm a computer troglodyte. It's item number 946221514. I just searched it using that no. and it came up.

Looks like generally Flayderman may be correct.  Looks like most of the pistol rifles were based on the larger frame but some earlier guns used the small frame.  I also read that in the 1920's the pistol was considered more rare than the pistol rifle so they were cutting down the rifles to pistols, I believe this information came from the same as what I have added with these screen shots.  Collectorsfirearms.com  and I hope it won't be a problem showing this info here.

One photo shows a comparison between the large and the small frame pistols and the other photos show features between the two versions of the rifle.

I do differ with the stock attaching on the second version though.  I'll show some picture why in my next post.

To be a bit clearer, the gun I have dimension on, is a rifle and not a pistol.  I believe it to be a second version.
Bob

I got a call from an owner of another original, he took measurement while we were on the phone, most of these cleared up questions I had from the original measurement I had gotten from another gentleman of his gun.   

So I've been working on the plastic prototype action in order to get issues worked out for a working action, and also a set of drawings that will be required in making a real working action from steel.  The plastic has been fun to work with!!

First photo is the action getting shaped up getting ready to add the working features like the lever, hammer, tumbler, firing pin and extractor. 

Second, the lever clearance cut is made and pivot pin located and bored.

3, the cartridge guide/tray cut.  This shows a 32-20 brass laying in it.  Not sure what caliber this thing will be, but I know it will not be a 32-20.  Just had it laying around so I used it for the picture..

4, Showing the lever attached to the beach block.  Laying on the frame is the first link I made.  I ended up making a slightly longer link which gave a bit more clearance inside and letting the block drop slightly lower.  The final lever will look like the one shown in the drawing.

5, Showing the breech block lowered.

I'm now working on the hammer position, tumbler and trigger.  At the same time I'll be figuring out the firing pin setup so the hammer can be shaped accordingly.

Since this gun was not a cartridge gun, it was originally a breech loading percussion, it did not have an extractor so I still don't have clue as to what the extractor will look like.  Hoping something comes up that answers this question. The firing pin and this issue is the biggest reason for the prototype action.  If anyone has some ideas, for an extractor, I sure would like to hear them, PM me if you would  please.
Bob

Bruce, Lots of if’s yet on this project, but if I get the bugs worked out, I told Rodney he could make molds from it if he wants to.
Bob

Bob, Understand Solid Modeling is the way to go with CAD, but this is taking it to extremes.
Keep up the good work. I like what you are doing.
Chuck

Not real exciting....but decided to start on this thing.  Now cutting steel rather than plastic!  Now threaded for a barrel and the breech block mortise is done

Since I didn't have a piece of 8620 wide enough, used what I have.  But, had to add some steel to have something to hold on to.  The added pieces will not be part of the finished gun.
Bob

The first photo is the finished and polished nose. 

Second I'm getting setup to cut the taper to the rear of the frame.  The pointed center finder was handy for getting this setup done.  The layout line are exactly the same on each side of the frame, allowing accurate placement between the two sides.  The line going somewhat straight to the right, is the measured end of the frame.....from there back, it's all tang.  The line running toward the lower left is the bore center line.  The short line running to the lower right is the angled frame line, 60 degrees from horizontal.  The location the center finder is pointing at will become the top, most rear point of the frame.

3, showing the frame line.  Lots of metal to remove.

4, like I said lots of metal.  I have cut the depth, to what will be the two tangs final width.

5, the rear section of the frame is narrower than the front.  This picture is showing the narrowing being completed.  It will become the area the trigger, lock parts and hammer shaft will fit into.
Bob

I know almost nothing about machining, but I'm really enjoying your build and the great explanations of the steps to make this Sharps! 
Thanks!

I started looking seriously at the side cover and realized the cover is actually tapered at the the front.  The reason for it is obvious to me now, the integrity of the frame would be compromised without it.  Not having a gun in hand I did not see the angle, but now that I know it's there, I see it in many of the pictures!    It was impossible to measure in the pictures so I ended up just winging it.  The first picture shows several test angles, they are 20, 25 and 30 degrees.  I choose 25, the center one, it should give plenty of meat for safety.  The side cover is also "keyed" into the frame.  That can also be seen here, the double lines lay this out.

The second picture, because of the discovery of the angled cover, all my measurements were off by that amount.  I ended up redrawing everything.....was not much fun!  Just behind the front panel radius, there is a verticle layout line that indicates where the angle should end up at full depth, I'm told the math is never wrong, we will see.  Everything behind this line is gun lock stuff and cover screw locations.  The other long vertical line is the cover "key" line.  If you want to get dizzy study the drawing behind the frame!   It's the redone one.

3, is just a close up of the lock and panel area layout.  I did this to check that all my numbers.. "math again".. are correct and work on the actual frame.

4, The rough cover ready to get fitted.

I'm thinking this should get moved to Gunsmithing, if a moderator thinks it would be appropriate.  When I started the thread, I was looking for collectors to see if I could get some information and didn't know if I would ever get going on it. 
Bob

These next 3 photo shows the completed mortise.  In photo 5 there was still a small section to be removed from the bottom, up against the angled side.  

I setup the gun frame in the vice to finish the bottom of the mortise to final depth, and connecting the bottom to the angled side.  This was done by carefully lower the cut and moving forward  into the angle. 

4 and 5. By using the angle gage I made, I machined one side of the cover to see how good of a fit I would get.  By using the same gage to machine both the frame and the cover angles, in theory they should match and it appears they do fairly well.

Bob

Don't think it turned out too bad.

You're a master of understatement, Bob; I can barely see the join line and that's mostly because I know where it should be.

Bill Lawrence

This next photo shows beginning of machining the bottom of the frame...which is on top as shown here.   

The second shows the bottom completed, completed on the rotary table.

Third is a clearer picture of the frame and what has been completed.  I still need the top end waste, so the upper tang will be machined out in a few days which will remove the waste material.

Fourth, I drilled and reamed the lever pivot hole and machined the radius around the hole.  I originally was going the make this hole 3/16 (.1875) but decided to make it a bit smaller at .156 after studying the original pictures.
Bob

This thing is moving along faster than I anticipated.  Going to need to make some decisions on what caliber I want it to be, because I'm close to needing a barrel.  Either a 22 long rifle or 25-20ss (I have brass) would be easy.  It has a small 3/4 inch barrel shank, so that is a limiting factor.  I've had an interest, for quite sometime, in a 22-15-60 but have the obvious concerns.  I actually have 20 loaded original UMC rounds which I would not use, but because I have them, I think is why I have an interest in the cartridge.
Anyone have thought on this?
Bob

In this first photo I'm chopping out the space for the lever and extractor.

In the second, just cleaning up the back side of the pellet box (not a pellet box on this gun).  I just machined it down close to the frame because the back of the frame needs to be fully radiused anyway, which will remove most of the material I left.

The third is showing where I'm currently at in the build and what it looks like.

So here is the breech block.  The flat face machine marks will be polished before fitting the barrel.  These picture make those tool tracks look lots worse than they are.  Everything is done except the pin hole.

The second photo is the breech block fitted in the frame showing the alignment required for proper lever function and space for the extractor.

Last is showing the pin boring complete, with the threaded end showing.

thank you, Bob, this one is really interestin', and may I say, your photos are so well done that a machinist dolt such as myself could see what is going on here. I might be tempted to think I could do it myself.
GT, your ''miniscule'' projects are always as intriguing as your bigger works. I hope the both of you continue to share this stuff with us for a long while to come. Happy Halloween to all.

Got going on the lever the last couple days.  Had to redo the numbers on my drawing somewhat because of some dimensional changes I made in the frame and breech block area.  That took most of an afternoon to correct and verify before starting to machine steel.

This first photo is how the lever started.  The thicker step will mostly be machined away but is needed because a portion will be left to activate the extractor.

The blank I used ended not being quite wide enough to catch the end of the lever.  It should have been, but because I change the layout on the blank it wouldn't fit.  So I ended up making the back portion straight and bent it into the shape I wanted.  Was going to use heat but I don't have anything that will get this much steel hot enough so ended up cold forging it.  This second picture shows the roughed out lever.

After some clean up the lever looks much better in this third picture.  But, is still way too heavy looking and will be thinned up  when I finish the outside of the lever.

In this fourth photo the inside is getting really close to finished size.  Just needs some fine tuning of the shape yet.  The outside will be left until the gun is more functional and I know the lever will work.  

This fifth picture now has the breech block in place and shows the step is mostly gone at the front.  The portion of the step that is left, is around the pivot pin.  There is a pretty good lump above and in front of the pivot pin.  There will be a spring to help hold the lever closed, and hopefully position the breech block in the proper place for loading the gun when open, but after extraction.  What I'm wanting is to open the lever until the cartridge is extracted and then the spring will push or raise the block to the loading position...hope that makes sense!  Anyway, this lump or cam will be what the spring will act on to make this stuff happen.....I hope!
Bob

Started on the extractor in this first picture.  Machining was done on the rotary table.  Didn't notice the broken tooth on end mill until I was done.

Thinning down the shell end of the extractor in the third picture.  With the broken end mill still being used!

And the last one is the rough finished extractor.
Bob

Don't know if people appreciate the drawings and layouts Bob uses as background for the photos.
Suspect he spends more time on those drawings than machining parts.
Don't believe most people can build an action from stock without some drafting skills.
Have read that John Browning could visualize parts and make them without a drawing or sketch.
Chuck 

While I was working I have had engineers bring me sketches on everything from drafting paper to the funny pages out of the newspaper. Don't matter what it is written on as long as it is legible and understandable.


JMH

Grumpy gumpy wrote on Nov 11^th, 2022 at 4:31pm:


He does, however, have issues with timber from time to time (Gumpy that is not bobw)

The first photo in this post is of making the decorative spacer.

When done making it in the lathe I threw it on the surface grinder to get the thickness I wanted and make sure the sides were parallel. Then back in the lathe on a mandrel and polished it.  The marks on the face are from installing it on the mandrel and not hurting anything.

3 is the spacer installed on the barrel shank.

The last two pictures are the barrel fully installed, setup properly to the breech block and the spacer installed.

The spacer will need some decoration which will be done the same as the grip cap and the screw that retains the cap.  These will probably need to be engraved since the grip cap is elliptical. 

Now I can work on getting the extractor installed, firing pin in place and the firing pin transfer bar made and installed.  I'll cut a chamber later.
Bob

As I mentioned before this original gun did not have an extractor or firing pin because it was made as a breech loading percussion in the 1850 and 60's.

So, I have a working extractor now. Photo 1 shows it fitted in the frame but still needs fitted to the barrel.

Photo 2 show the frame machined slot.

3 and 4 shows it fitted to the barrel, fully open and near fully closed.

Bob

This first picture is shown just to give an idea where the rear of the frame is in relation to the tumbler mortise.  The left side of the ruler is the rear of the frame line.

In this last picture the mortise is complete.  The tool path I cut in error is shown but, now at the front of it is a round pocket.  The tool path and this pocket are now the same depth at .040.  The round pocket is where the trigger pivot screw will be.  The trigger was to have a .010 boss on each side, but now the side where I messed up will have one that will be .050 to make up for the error.
Bob

Once the pin hole and back slot were cut I then moved to the side slot.  I have never actually seen a transfer bar style firing pin apart, so this is my version of what I have seen in pictures.  Since the bar needs to move in and out with the firing pin, but needs to be restrained in the breech block, the side slot will have a key machined on the top and bottom.  This will allow it to slide in and out but keep it in place in the breech block.  A small screw from the back side will be adjustable to stop how far it can back out.  And the firing pin will be a separate part form the transfer bar.

This first picture is the setup used to machine the slot and keys.  I ran the indicator in the back slot to get it exactly vertical in the mill and then double checked it with a pin placed in the firing pin hole.  I used also used the slot and pin to setup the angle matching he pin angle, I simply angled the vice to get the correct angle. 

I ground a carbide 3/16 end mill to the width I wanted for the slot under the keys, .080.   Photo 2  The slot between the keys will be  .112 so the shank on this ground tool is .105.  The cutter is 3/16 in diameter.  

Phot 3.  Might be hard to see but the first step and inside width are  now complete to depth in the breech block, less a couple thousands that will be finished in the final step in machining the slot under the keys use the tool I made.

Photo 4.  The transfer bar machining is complete, except for a slot for the riser off the transfer bar that the hammer will actually strike.  The keys and under cut can be seen.  The sharp inside corner will be radiused, probably with a file.  The transfer bar will be radiused also, to match and add a small amount of strength to this area.

Bob

Continuing with the breech block, firing pin and transfer bar this first picture is showing the new transfer bar still attached to the supporting steel but fitted to the breech block.

The second photo is the bar cut free.  I actually ended up making a second transfer bar because the first one was just slightly looser than what I wanted.  At this point the screw coming in from the rear that limits the travel is made and installed for testing it and eventually for assisting in the trimming of excess metal from the transfer bar so that it fits the breech block.

In this third photo the excess metal is gone and the breech block is installed.  I removed the excess transfer bar metal in the mill.  I locked the bar in its furthest rear position with the screw and started picking away at it with an end mill, which got me within .010 of the final size.  I finished it with files. The bar was a little sticky in the breech block so I lapped it in with 600 grit lapping compound.  

I have not made the firing pin at this point, I want to ream the pin hole a couple thousands bigger and am waiting for the reamer.  My intent is to have a spring under the front of the firing pin that pushes it and the transfer bar back.  The spring I have is slightly tight in the hole so I need that reamer.

The last two pictures are the finished breech block.  The retaining screw can be seen.  By adjusting this I can limit the rear travel of the transfer bar without interfering with the forward travel when the hammer hits it.  The the hammer lug will be cut down after the hammer is fully installed so they can be properly mated.

Thanks!!   
I have to admit, this just about had me throwing the whole project in the scrap bucket when I discovered the first transfer bar was loose and had to make it again.
Bob

On to the hammer.

Rather than starting with steel, knowing there would be considerable filing required, I decided the first one would be from plastic.

This first picture is a poorly drawn first version on the plastic.  It morphed into a little different shape as I progressed, and the steel version will be changed even more so.

The last four pictures are the hammer shaping and fitting to the frame and breech block.  I think I will be able to lower the top of the hammer after I get the frame radius around the the breech block lowered, making it a bit lower profile hammer.

Bob,
Not for a moment did I believe you would toss this project  it's one of those now that you are committed to.   
I didn't pay any attention to the internals of the original I had in my hands, I'll look next time... the '74 has a small protrusion on the front of the transfer bar that fits a recess in the mortice when the block is at battery.  When the breech block begins to move the transfer bar pushes the hammer back off the firing pin.  Just something else to look at and ponder    You may have to make another transfer bar 
(I wouldn't )

Greg

Needed to get at the hammer but, before that, I needed the cartridge tray machined in the frame.

So, this is just a series of pictures showing the progress.  That's a 25-20ss in the tray.  Also showing is the machined cut-out for clearance of the hammer nose.
Bob

Here is a picture of the transfer bar in it's final configuration.  The slight cut out in the breech block, left of the bar, is for hammer clearance and fitting and getting the hammer into the frame.

The last couple photos are of how the hammer acts against the transfer bar.

Have a great Christmas everyone!
Bob

I agree, just amazing! Not being a machinist I am really enjoying this thread.

bob, great job. i have really enjoyed watching the progress and the conversations we have had but i see gregs influence on you(the rubber band ).  tony<><

This picture shows getting the trigger spring made and fitted to the frame and trigger.  I cut this from a chunk of 1080 steel, ground it to the thickness I needed, then hardened and tempered after the fitting and shaping. I hardened by heating to red and quenched in oil.  To temper, this is a small thin spring so I polished and reheated to a dark straw color and quenched in oil again, repolished and called it done.

The tail of three springs!

The first spring did need a replacement made, not only was it a bit weak but it broke right where I was concerned it would, at the end of the cut slot.  Made about 10 cycles of the hammer.

First photo....So, the second spring was made a little differently with the slot farther forward.  I was thinking the spring would not be stressed as much with the end of the slot moved forward out of that high stress area. But, it broke before I even got it compressed in the gun.  The break was about 3/8th inch in front of the end of the slot.  I am suspecting a stress point, or I missed on the tempering.  I'm believing it was a stress point more than the tempering because it was hard to get in that area to clean up the saw marks and polish the spring.  Even though it was tough to get into, I thought it was polished very well but still could have been a small saw mark I couldn't see.

Second photo...I used 1080 steel for the first two spring and basically machined them from solid bar stock.  This third spring was made from a piece of 1075 steel that was 1/8th inch thick.  As can be seen I folded this over on its self, forming the spring.  Before folding, the steel was polished so I did not need to get into that tight area after the bending.  This spring heat treated and tempered nicely.  Was a little bit of a battle getting it into the frame and was too strong.  I wanted it strong to start and then planned to thin it in order to get what I wanted. I cycled it several times and believed I had it working. This is where I ended yesterday, leaving the spring in the frame.

Third photo....I left it in the full cock position for the night.  Unlocked the shop this morning and checked it, before having my morning coffee, and it was broke as seen in the picture.

Needless to say it was a bit disappointing!  Took today and probably a couple more off from this gun.   

Still had a good day though!  Got the little rook rifle shooting.  It's chambered in 300 rook and I need to figure out how to get loads working in it and I got that all worked out and test fired.   
This rook is going to be a fun little gun!
Bob

You have my sympathy, bobw.  I’ve never found the hardening and tempering of springs the walk in the park so often described in gunsmithing books or articles.

Maybe it’s because I burn off the quenching oil in the hubcap of a ‘48 Dodge rather than a ‘36 Ford, but my score seems steady at two wet noodles and one broken one for every usable one.

This is a great thread, nonetheless.