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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Read 35593 times)
bobw
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Sharps Pistol Rifle Build
Sep 2nd, 2022 at 1:51pm
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I have been developing an interest in this rare gun which was made in the 1850's and 60's.  Been studying what I can from internet sources, but that being limited, am looking for more help.  While some don't consider it a very good looking gun, I find it interesting and in the same class as a Remington #7 rolling block since they both were made with variations from a pistol.

There are several variations of the rifle and pistol and I believe they were all breech loading percussion guns.  Variations being in frame modifications, stock attachment and primer feeding patents.  There is also a couple pistol frame sizes, but I am interested in the smaller frame, although from what I understand the parts were basically designed the same, but will not interchange between the two sizes.  Also, apparently after WW1 someone took around 20 rifles, made pistols from them and were very well done, so these are out there and would also help me.  

What I am asking for here, is for anyone that has detailed information on these contact me.  The ideal situation would be if someone that owns one would contact me and be willing to answer detailed question on the gun.  The possibility of disassembling the gun would be really great but not necessary.  Maybe someone has photos of the inside workings and they would be appreciated as well.  I have contacted several folks about the gun that I thought might know where one might be, but so far have had no luck, so was hoping someone here may be able to help.  Possibly one of you knows who owns one and would see if they would be willing to talk.

Please PM me if you would prefer, over posting on the open forum.

So everyone knows what the gun is and what I'm looking for, here are pictures from Rock Island Auctions of a rifle.  Pistol picture is from an internet article.
Thanks,
Bob
« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2024 at 9:06pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #1 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 10:28am
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Bob, Can't help but you are a glutton for punishment. Beautiful little rifle.
Action: tough to build, don't think Rodney has castings, Allen & Thurber type mainspring. Could be done with a few dimensions. 
Would make a nice small caliber cartridge rifle and probably less complicated than your No. 7, except for the action.
Would encourage you to continue and within your skill set. A very unique rifle.
Chuck
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #2 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 11:30am
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It seems to me that roughly 20 years ago, somebody like Franklin Mint made a full-size, functional, but pot metal copy of the pistol.  IF I'm right and IF you could find one, it might serve as a model for somebody like our Rodney to make a set of basic action castings, modified to take a scaled-down version of someone's current Model 1874 firing pin assembly.  From what you've shown us here, Bob, I'm sure you could take it from there.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #3 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 12:29pm
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Thanks Bill and Chuck for the words of encouragement!  If I countinue down this road I might need more. Smiley
I have time, lots of steel but not much for brains I guess, but this is one of those “can I do this” things!

Talked with Rodney and he does not have any casting but is interested.  Have also picked at Greg a little on it.

Chuck, you will need to enlighten me on the Allen & Thurber design.

Bill, I believe Greg had the same thought on using something similar to the 1874 design.

The frame has a side plate on the left side.  I am assuming, since it is an early breechloader and probably using muzzleloader technology, it uses a tumbler that is supported by that side plate.  From what I have found two of the three screws on the plate side actually attach the plate to the frame.  Not sure what the other does but guessing it might be for the trigger.  How the spring is oriented is also a question.  Lots of question that could be answered if I could see the inside of one of these.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #4 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 4:52pm
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There are many internet photos of the pistol.  One, for example, shows the frame with the grips removed and the mainspring set-up clearly visible.  Others show the breech block with its heavily-rounded corners from both the top and the bottom.   The action is clearly a simplified version of the rifle's without the added complexity of a side-plate-mounted lock mechanism.

You can do this, Bob!

Bill Lawrence
« Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2022 at 5:18pm by MrTipUp »  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #5 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 10:27pm
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Bill, 
Interesting, I have over 150 picture of rifles and pistols.   

Got breech block pictures when in the frame but nothing disassembled.  I have completely missed the pistol with the grips removed, I’m probably not searching correctly, would it be possible to get that picture for me.   
Thanks, Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #6 - Sep 3rd, 2022 at 11:43pm
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Sorry. Bob, I'm not computer literate enough to do that.  But if you google "sharps breech loading pistol images", you should find it.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #7 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 1:44pm
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Thanks Bill, been searching and have not found the picture.  Most everything I see, I have seen before.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #8 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 4:08pm
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I'm sorry, Bob; I sometimes don't give very good directions.  So I'll try again.

Google "sharps breech loading single shot pistol images".  When they come up, click on "view all".  The photo I'm referring to is the 114th image in the expanded set, 8th after the photo of Seller's book.  Click on that image, then on "view page", and you will be lead to a closed auction (sale # 100982311) on the Guns International site.  You can still play with the photo set for that auction, several of which may be of interest to you.

I really hope that this time I'm of help.

Bill Lawrence
« Last Edit: Sep 4th, 2022 at 4:14pm by MrTipUp »  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #9 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 4:53pm
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Shortcut.  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #10 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 5:36pm
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Many, many thanks, John Wells!

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #11 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 6:52pm
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thanks for the link to see more of this interesting gun. Now, a question- are all of the paper tape primers interchangeable? And, if one was without the tapes could you revert to the ordinary percussion cap?
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #12 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 7:03pm
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I've always assumed that the rifles used musket-size nipples while the pistols and pistol-based rifles used revolver-size ones.  But I don't know that for sure and so I can't answer your first question.

But I can positively answer the second, having actually done so on many occasions with a Schoyen-rebuilt Model 1859:  you certainly can use a standard musket cap.  In fact, it's my understanding that many Civil War participants preferred to do so.

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #13 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 7:35pm
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Thanks Bill and John,  I believe that is the large frame pistol because of the 6 1/4 inch barrel, but a great find for me anyway.  Definitely shows how some of it is put together. As I said before, the rifle and pistol look the same but parts will not interchange.
Bob
« Last Edit: Sep 4th, 2022 at 7:41pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #14 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 7:39pm
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I don't know much about the tape system but did find this on Christian Sharps patented pellet system that was used on this gun.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #15 - Sep 4th, 2022 at 8:08pm
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According to Flayderman, the "small" pistols were .31 and .34 caliber, the "large" were .36, and the rifles in both .31 and .38 were made on a "Special Pistol Rifle" action.  Assuming that Mr. Sharps actually wanted to make money from these somewhat unconventional guns, I'd guess that the rifle action was little different from the larger pistol action.  In any case, assuming that you can't borrow and do not relish the outlay for an original rifle, I'd think it expedient and reasonable to scale a rifle action off of a larger pistol.

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #16 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 12:03pm
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Bill, Before posting my question here, I think I had enough information to start on the frame drawings but really nothing on the internals.  While I had some idea what the inside might look like, I was hoping someone would pop in here that had a gun or access to one and clarify things for me.  Although, that hope is fading fast! Smiley  The help here, so far, has moved me down this road a bit further though.  Many probably think it’s crazy even starting down it!   
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #17 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 12:49pm
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Thanks to all that answered my questions. I once thought I knew a lot about antique rifles. Ha! Embarrassed But, the fellows here always step up and supply info to whoever has a question to ask.
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #18 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 8:32pm
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Wish one more person would step in with a picture inside of this animal. Cheesy
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #19 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 10:18pm
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I'd guess that at least one or two large public collections - NRA, Cody, Frazier, and the like - would have one of those rifles.  If so, perhaps an associated conservator (like I was) could be enlisted to disassemble one and take photos.  As an inducement, I'd offer photos of your elegant and authentic work to establish your bona fides, plus a suitable fee.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #20 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 10:57pm
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That’s  a good thought Bill.  First, I’ll give this a bit more time to see if something comes up.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #21 - Sep 13th, 2022 at 3:35pm
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Looks like I may get at least external dimensions from an original.  Found a gent that owns one and seem interested in the project.  He’s a bit hesitant to disassemble it but says he may give it a go, we will see.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #22 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 12:03pm
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I now have internal pictures.  It confirms my assumptions of it being very similar to a simple muzzleloader lock.  Nothing really surprised me except the fly and how really, really small this gun is!  If you look at the front of the trigger there is a screw pointing at the tumbler.  The owner could not tell me if the end pushed against the tumbler, but I’m assuming it does, and is an adjustment for sear engagement.
Bob
« Last Edit: Sep 20th, 2022 at 12:24pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #23 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 1:41pm
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Bob,
I'm hung up on the need for the fly, nothing indicates a set trigger - is the return spring on the trigger stiff enough it returns it to rest quick?  If so then the trigger pull must be substantial.  I'm missing something obviously.
G
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #24 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 5:01pm
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Congratulations, Bob!  I knew you'd get at least some pictures somehow. Also, if the fly acts on anything, I'd think it would be the trigger.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #25 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 6:38pm
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so, he did 'step up' and help- like I said, you guys are great. Now, it's time to suggest that he put a little lubricant into that dry-looking ol' rifle to keep it for another century or so.
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #26 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 7:15pm
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calledflyer….by the time I got these pictures it was already back together.  I felt very lucky to have gotten them.  Had questions but it was to late, he did want to take it apart again.  He has been very helpful and really appreciated 

Greg, not a set trigger and that’s why the fly surprised me.  I’m with you….and wonder if it will be necessary.  Don’t know about the trigger pull but looking at the spring, and it’s geometry against the trigger, I wouldn’t doubt it might be high.

Working on a mock-up in plastic.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #27 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 7:20pm
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Have you seen the one currently for sale on GB?
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #28 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 7:29pm
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No, have not seen the one on GB.  I had looked but found nothing, just looked again and still don't see it.  Can you post a link?
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #29 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 7:34pm
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The start of the plastic mock-up.  Doesn't look like much yet!

The stub is made from steel and was intended to also be used on the actual build but my threading today just didn't go well, so it is not good enough to use later, but works for this.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #30 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 7:42pm
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Sorry I'm a computer troglodyte. It's item number 946221514. I just searched it using that no. and it came up.
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #31 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 9:17pm
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The Gunbroker example is the small frame.  Since Flayderman suggests that the pistol-rifle was made on its own action, I'd guess that a large-frame pistol might be more helpful.  I also wonder if it would be worth discovering in what ways - if any - the two sizes of pistols differ internally.

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #32 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 10:41pm
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Looks like generally Flayderman may be correct.  Looks like most of the pistol rifles were based on the larger frame but some earlier guns used the small frame.  I also read that in the 1920's the pistol was considered more rare than the pistol rifle so they were cutting down the rifles to pistols, I believe this information came from the same as what I have added with these screen shots.  Collectorsfirearms.com  and I hope it won't be a problem showing this info here.

One photo shows a comparison between the large and the small frame pistols and the other photos show features between the two versions of the rifle.

I do differ with the stock attaching on the second version though.  I'll show some picture why in my next post.

To be a bit clearer, the gun I have dimension on, is a rifle and not a pistol.  I believe it to be a second version.
Bob

« Last Edit: Sep 20th, 2022 at 10:59pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #33 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 10:56pm
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The first photo shows the bottom of the wood portion of the grip.  As can be seen there are no attaching point to the frame.

The second photo shows the top grip screws locations.  The gent that owns and took the gun apart said the the top screws were just wood screws, I did not want to challenge him on this but as I will show, I believe this is incorrect.  I'm certain the rear is a wood screw but I believe the front is a machine screw that ties the top and button grips together, as shown with the arrow.

The third picture show the threaded hole in the bottom of the front grip.  I'm certain this retains the grip cap, definitely not the wood.

In the fourth picture, at the bottom and at the arrow, is a threaded hole that I believe the top front grip screw fastens into, tying the upper and lower grips together.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #34 - Sep 26th, 2022 at 1:06pm
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I got a call from an owner of another original, he took measurement while we were on the phone, most of these cleared up questions I had from the original measurement I had gotten from another gentleman of his gun.   

So I've been working on the plastic prototype action in order to get issues worked out for a working action, and also a set of drawings that will be required in making a real working action from steel.  The plastic has been fun to work with!!

First photo is the action getting shaped up getting ready to add the working features like the lever, hammer, tumbler, firing pin and extractor. 

Second, the lever clearance cut is made and pivot pin located and bored.

3, the cartridge guide/tray cut.  This shows a 32-20 brass laying in it.  Not sure what caliber this thing will be, but I know it will not be a 32-20.  Just had it laying around so I used it for the picture..

4, Showing the lever attached to the beach block.  Laying on the frame is the first link I made.  I ended up making a slightly longer link which gave a bit more clearance inside and letting the block drop slightly lower.  The final lever will look like the one shown in the drawing.

5, Showing the breech block lowered.

I'm now working on the hammer position, tumbler and trigger.  At the same time I'll be figuring out the firing pin setup so the hammer can be shaped accordingly.

Since this gun was not a cartridge gun, it was originally a breech loading percussion, it did not have an extractor so I still don't have clue as to what the extractor will look like.  Hoping something comes up that answers this question. The firing pin and this issue is the biggest reason for the prototype action.  If anyone has some ideas, for an extractor, I sure would like to hear them, PM me if you would  please.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #35 - Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:01pm
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Bob,
     This is a really cool project.  As mentioned earlier, it reminds me of a #7 rolling block, but also the 1902 Webley round block.  Very interesting.  I certainly hope it is something that Rodney can make molds of for copies.  It would definitely be a fun one to put together.   
Bruce
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #36 - Sep 27th, 2022 at 12:21pm
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Bruce, Lots of if’s yet on this project, but if I get the bugs worked out, I told Rodney he could make molds from it if he wants to.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #37 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 6:52pm
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I now have a working extractor. Cheesy
After making two different extractors and three different levers!  The tolerances are fairly loose but I'm confident it will work well in the real gun.  Couple pictures.

And, I think I have the firing pin figured out...we will see.  Just got started on it late this afternoon and the hard part is coming up tomorrow.  Picture of where it is.   
My hammer is pretty funky....the real one won't be so embarrassing, I hope! Embarrassed
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #38 - Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:26pm
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Bob, Understand Solid Modeling is the way to go with CAD, but this is taking it to extremes. Wink
Keep up the good work. I like what you are doing.
Chuck
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #39 - Oct 8th, 2022 at 1:55pm
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Thanks Chuck.

I think I have the firing pin issue figured out.  Grin

Here are a few pictures from different angles.  It's a bit hard to see but they show the transfer bar.  The firing pin is not in place but the hole can be seen in the center.  On the actual gun the transfer bar will be much neater, and will be made differently, but this shows the idea anyway.....not my idea though.  I have found pictures of other guns with similar transfer bars.  This one is keyed top and bottom and the keys are in the transfer bar and are really too tall. Rather than grinding a tool to cut the block for the keys, I used a cutter I had on hand, even though it was a bit too big to cut the slots in the breech block.  On the real gun I plan on both being in the breech block and much shorter.  The transfer bar will have the female groove for the keys. The firing pin will not be attached to the bar and will have a spring to retract it.  There will be a screw coming in from the rear of the breech block to limit how far the transfer bar can back out from the firing pin retract spring pressure.

I welcome any comments or suggestions of possible issues, or better ideas, with this  style firing pin and extractor.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #40 - Oct 14th, 2022 at 7:13pm
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Not real exciting....but decided to start on this thing.  Now cutting steel rather than plastic!  Now threaded for a barrel and the breech block mortise is done

Since I didn't have a piece of 8620 wide enough, used what I have.  But, had to add some steel to have something to hold on to.  The added pieces will not be part of the finished gun.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #41 - Oct 17th, 2022 at 7:26pm
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Getting more done on this rifle.  Might be getting little more interesting!

In this first photo the step is cut out from under the nose...getting ready to make it round.  I milled the front face of the frame under the nose to my specs because this is the surface many measurements come from.

Next is the frame setup in the lathe to cut the nose.

Photo 3 shows starting the cut of the nose.  This was a bit interesting with the frame offset and the interrupted cut while starting.

4. Here the nose is rough cut, it's shown as straight, the nose is actually finished as a taper.

5. The taper is now cut.  It was manually cut because it's not a straight taper, it's more of a curved taper.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #42 - Oct 17th, 2022 at 7:49pm
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The first photo is the finished and polished nose. 

Second I'm getting setup to cut the taper to the rear of the frame.  The pointed center finder was handy for getting this setup done.  The layout line are exactly the same on each side of the frame, allowing accurate placement between the two sides.  The line going somewhat straight to the right, is the measured end of the frame.....from there back, it's all tang.  The line running toward the lower left is the bore center line.  The short line running to the lower right is the angled frame line, 60 degrees from horizontal.  The location the center finder is pointing at will become the top, most rear point of the frame.

3, showing the frame line.  Lots of metal to remove.

4, like I said lots of metal.  I have cut the depth, to what will be the two tangs final width.

5, the rear section of the frame is narrower than the front.  This picture is showing the narrowing being completed.  It will become the area the trigger, lock parts and hammer shaft will fit into.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #43 - Oct 17th, 2022 at 7:59pm
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The rear, of the front wider section of the frame, has a radius cut.  This picture show the radius just being completed.  Had to grind a radius cutter to complete this because radius is longer going forward than going to the frame.

2, showing the mill work on one side complete.

3, both sides complete.

4, close up of the top showing width changes and radius's.
Bob

  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #44 - Oct 18th, 2022 at 11:22am
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I know almost nothing about machining, but I'm really enjoying your build and the great explanations of the steps to make this Sharps! 
Thanks!
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #45 - Oct 18th, 2022 at 8:13pm
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Agree with Val, always fun to watch a talented person make things happen. Thank you
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #46 - Oct 20th, 2022 at 8:10pm
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I started looking seriously at the side cover and realized the cover is actually tapered at the the front.  The reason for it is obvious to me now, the integrity of the frame would be compromised without it.  Not having a gun in hand I did not see the angle, but now that I know it's there, I see it in many of the pictures! Embarrassed   It was impossible to measure in the pictures so I ended up just winging it.  The first picture shows several test angles, they are 20, 25 and 30 degrees.  I choose 25, the center one, it should give plenty of meat for safety.  The side cover is also "keyed" into the frame.  That can also be seen here, the double lines lay this out.

The second picture, because of the discovery of the angled cover, all my measurements were off by that amount.  I ended up redrawing everything.....was not much fun!  Just behind the front panel radius, there is a verticle layout line that indicates where the angle should end up at full depth, I'm told the math is never wrong, we will see.  Everything behind this line is gun lock stuff and cover screw locations.  The other long vertical line is the cover "key" line.  If you want to get dizzy study the drawing behind the frame! Cheesy  It's the redone one.

3, is just a close up of the lock and panel area layout.  I did this to check that all my numbers.. "math again".. are correct and work on the actual frame.

4, The rough cover ready to get fitted.
« Last Edit: Oct 20th, 2022 at 8:44pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #47 - Oct 20th, 2022 at 8:59pm
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You are the man Bob. You’re doing it right.
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #48 - Oct 21st, 2022 at 6:22pm
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I'm thinking this should get moved to Gunsmithing, if a moderator thinks it would be appropriate.  When I started the thread, I was looking for collectors to see if I could get some information and didn't know if I would ever get going on it. 
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #49 - Oct 21st, 2022 at 6:51pm
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Had a good day working on this!  I was pretty anxious about machining the frame and fitting the cover, mostly over being able to get the fit I was wanting.  While the cover isn't fitted yet it's lots closer!

These first two photo are the start to machining the frame to receive the cover.   You can see it's not machine all the way forward and the "keyed" area is not full depth.

The third photo is an angle gage I ended up making in order to be sure I had a solid setup.  I have trouble with regular angle gages sliding away from the part during setup.  This one is an inch thick,  hooks over the edge of the vise and is rock solid. 

Photo 4 is of cutting the angle.  I worked into the angle and down until I was up to the radius of the front panel and down to the depth line of the mortice.

5. Shows the angle complete in depth and up against the radius.

Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #50 - Oct 21st, 2022 at 7:09pm
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These next 3 photo shows the completed mortise.  In photo 5 there was still a small section to be removed from the bottom, up against the angled side.  

I setup the gun frame in the vice to finish the bottom of the mortise to final depth, and connecting the bottom to the angled side.  This was done by carefully lower the cut and moving forward  into the angle. 

4 and 5. By using the angle gage I made, I machined one side of the cover to see how good of a fit I would get.  By using the same gage to machine both the frame and the cover angles, in theory they should match and it appears they do fairly well.

Bob
« Last Edit: Oct 21st, 2022 at 7:28pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #51 - Oct 23rd, 2022 at 6:25pm
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Got two of the three screws fitted now.  The front one also act like a dowel, the shoulder fits a reamed hole in the plate and frame.  It's not an interference fit, like a dowel would be, but a slip fit.  My thoughts are that the plate is held horizontally by the key and now  this screw will help keep it in position vertically.  The side plate also carries the side of the tumbler, oposite from hammer. 

The third screw carries the trigger, so waiting on it until I decide what size hole the trigger will end up with.  I have an idea what it will be but want to think about it a bit longer.

I machined the waste material from the top of the plate in order to get a better look at the fit.  Don't think it turned out too bad.  

Still need to get the screws indexed the way I want them and the heads trimmed to length.  Then machine the plate to the proper thickness.

A little perspective on this gun…..the screws have 1/4 inch heads.
Bob
« Last Edit: Oct 23rd, 2022 at 6:35pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #52 - Oct 23rd, 2022 at 11:58pm
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Don't think it turned out too bad.

You're a master of understatement, Bob; I can barely see the join line and that's mostly because I know where it should be.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #53 - Oct 26th, 2022 at 7:41pm
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In these first couple pictures I have the frame setup on the rotary table machining the top profile of the frame.  Although, I can only go so far forward and back.  The top tang is mostly straight from here back, and the the front cupped area over the breech block will be completed from the other side, where I can see how the back of the cup is forming.  The back rises up to the box that on the original held the primer pellets.

The third photo shows the main spring pocket being formed.  The larger round area retains the end of the spring while the straight area is where the spring works against.

In the fourth picture I am just cutting the inside radius of the lower tang.  Not shown here is where I removed the cover and extended this machining into the tumbler area.  At that time I also slightly changed the angle where the spring rests.  I felt the angel was a little too high originally, this gives the spring more working room.

I know it’s hard to see but this last photo shows the slight angle change.  It also shows the internals of lower tang completely machined.  The top middle tang screw eventually screws into the rear portion of lower tang, tying the two tangs together.
Bob
« Last Edit: Oct 26th, 2022 at 8:01pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #54 - Oct 26th, 2022 at 7:55pm
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This next photo shows beginning of machining the bottom of the frame...which is on top as shown here.   

The second shows the bottom completed, completed on the rotary table.

Third is a clearer picture of the frame and what has been completed.  I still need the top end waste, so the upper tang will be machined out in a few days which will remove the waste material.

Fourth, I drilled and reamed the lever pivot hole and machined the radius around the hole.  I originally was going the make this hole 3/16 (.1875) but decided to make it a bit smaller at .156 after studying the original pictures.
Bob

  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #55 - Oct 26th, 2022 at 8:01pm
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Machine Shop Magic!

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #56 - Oct 30th, 2022 at 6:12pm
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This thing is moving along faster than I anticipated.  Going to need to make some decisions on what caliber I want it to be, because I'm close to needing a barrel.  Either a 22 long rifle or 25-20ss (I have brass) would be easy.  It has a small 3/4 inch barrel shank, so that is a limiting factor.  I've had an interest, for quite sometime, in a 22-15-60 but have the obvious concerns.  I actually have 20 loaded original UMC rounds which I would not use, but because I have them, I think is why I have an interest in the cartridge.
Anyone have thought on this?
Bob

In this first photo I'm chopping out the space for the lever and extractor.

In the second, just cleaning up the back side of the pellet box (not a pellet box on this gun).  I just machined it down close to the frame because the back of the frame needs to be fully radiused anyway, which will remove most of the material I left.

The third is showing where I'm currently at in the build and what it looks like.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #57 - Oct 30th, 2022 at 6:29pm
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So now I'm ready to start on the breech block,  Since it's round, it needs a flat face cut for the barrel breech face and the slot machined for the lever and link.  The link pin will have an 8-32  threaded section on one end to retain it in the breech block.  

The first two pictures here are turning the breech block and it fitted in the frame.  It has not been machine for the barrel breech face as can be seen by the wide gap between the false barrel and frame

The third picture is the setup used to machine the flat face.  I did check it both on the vertical and horizontal axes to be sure it was in the vice straight to the mill.

I don't show milling the flat so here it is fitted to the false barrel face.  The false barrel is turned against the breech block and a small gap can still be seen between the barrel and frame.  While it doesn't matter here, it will with the real barrel.  This gap will be filled with a decorative spacer.

The last picture is the setup to machine the lever and link slots.  This setup was also check to be sure it was correct for milling.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #58 - Oct 30th, 2022 at 6:42pm
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So here is the breech block.  The flat face machine marks will be polished before fitting the barrel.  These picture make those tool tracks look lots worse than they are.  Everything is done except the pin hole.

The second photo is the breech block fitted in the frame showing the alignment required for proper lever function and space for the extractor.

Last is showing the pin boring complete, with the threaded end showing.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #59 - Oct 31st, 2022 at 8:59am
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Bob,
Thanks for sharing this build with us.   
I'm green with envy, not making the action so much but just not having the time in my world for a build.  I've managed to squeeze a little  project in here and there but mine are minuscule in comparison.   
Keep it up, I think the salt you're rubbing in is healing the wound a little  Grin Grin
Hope to share a little next week on a tiny project I have in the works...
Greg
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #60 - Oct 31st, 2022 at 9:50am
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thank you, Bob, this one is really interestin', and may I say, your photos are so well done that a machinist dolt such as myself could see what is going on here. I might be tempted to think I could do it myself. Roll Eyes
GT, your ''miniscule'' projects are always as intriguing as your bigger works. I hope the both of you continue to share this stuff with us for a long while to come. Happy Halloween to all.
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #61 - Oct 31st, 2022 at 11:58am
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Greg, 
My wife always said my work got in the way of my hobby!  I think you have the same problem.  It is nice having the time for these projects now days.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #62 - Nov 2nd, 2022 at 10:53pm
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Got going on the lever the last couple days.  Had to redo the numbers on my drawing somewhat because of some dimensional changes I made in the frame and breech block area.  That took most of an afternoon to correct and verify before starting to machine steel.

This first photo is how the lever started.  The thicker step will mostly be machined away but is needed because a portion will be left to activate the extractor.

The blank I used ended not being quite wide enough to catch the end of the lever.  It should have been, but because I change the layout on the blank it wouldn't fit.  So I ended up making the back portion straight and bent it into the shape I wanted.  Was going to use heat but I don't have anything that will get this much steel hot enough so ended up cold forging it.  This second picture shows the roughed out lever.

After some clean up the lever looks much better in this third picture.  But, is still way too heavy looking and will be thinned up  when I finish the outside of the lever.

In this fourth photo the inside is getting really close to finished size.  Just needs some fine tuning of the shape yet.  The outside will be left until the gun is more functional and I know the lever will work.  

This fifth picture now has the breech block in place and shows the step is mostly gone at the front.  The portion of the step that is left, is around the pivot pin.  There is a pretty good lump above and in front of the pivot pin.  There will be a spring to help hold the lever closed, and hopefully position the breech block in the proper place for loading the gun when open, but after extraction.  What I'm wanting is to open the lever until the cartridge is extracted and then the spring will push or raise the block to the loading position...hope that makes sense!  Anyway, this lump or cam will be what the spring will act on to make this stuff happen.....I hope!
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #63 - Nov 2nd, 2022 at 11:10pm
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The lever needs fitting to the frame and breech block to work properly.  The first part I did was making sure it closed all the way when hooked to the breech block.  Secondly, the open position was adjusted.  This is all done by removing metal here and there until everything works.

The last photo in the previous post shows the closed portion of the fitting completed.  The first here shows the open position complete.

The last two pictures are of slightly different angles showing the breech block and lever hook up and fitting.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #64 - Nov 8th, 2022 at 7:26pm
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Started on the extractor in this first picture.  Machining was done on the rotary table.  Didn't notice the broken tooth on end mill until I was done.

Thinning down the shell end of the extractor in the third picture.  With the broken end mill still being used!

And the last one is the rough finished extractor.
Bob
« Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2022 at 8:03pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #65 - Nov 8th, 2022 at 7:49pm
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In the first picture the extractor is in its final position in the frame, but the frame needs the slot cut before I can get it fitted to the barrel.  I just ordered the barrel from CPA on Friday, so it will be a few days before I get back to this gun.

A friend gave me 250 pounds of sheet lead so I melted it all down yesterday and poured in molds.  The same friend loaned me his large lead pot and burner which really made things go quickly, 4 hours start to finish.  Probably more lead than I will ever need but couldn't turn it down.

The second photo shows the extractor against the lever as it will be in the gun.  Notice the part of the lever that wraps around the extractor.  When the lever is opened all the way this will trip the extractor.  The wrap will be shortened up as the extractor is fitted and timed with the lever.  I got the idea for this extractor from the Stevens 44 1/2 and its 6 o'clock position.  This one will not be at 6 o'clock, but the activation is still very similar.

The last picture is just another view of the two pieces.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #66 - Nov 11th, 2022 at 12:00pm
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Don't know if people appreciate the drawings and layouts Bob uses as background for the photos.
Suspect he spends more time on those drawings than machining parts.
Don't believe most people can build an action from stock without some drafting skills.
Have read that John Browning could visualize parts and make them without a drawing or sketch.
Chuck 
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #67 - Nov 11th, 2022 at 4:31pm
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The Russian who designed the margolin range of target pistols was blind, he would describe the part to the machinists and they would make it, he would then feel the part to see if it needed changes. Having said that I need detailed drawings and then I can build things if they are even slightly out of the ordinary. Bobw drawings are pretty good from what I can see of them.
Gumpy
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #68 - Nov 11th, 2022 at 6:32pm
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While I was working I have had engineers bring me sketches on everything from drafting paper to the funny pages out of the newspaper. Don't matter what it is written on as long as it is legible and understandable.


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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #69 - Nov 12th, 2022 at 12:26pm
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I can usually visualize a part I want to make, but there is no way I could make it without some sort of drawing.  I draw most everything, even the wood parts and don’t do any working of wood or metal until I’m comfortable with the drawing.  Chuck is correct, I spend lots of time drawing and do enjoy doing it, they work for me even though I realize they wouldn’t cut it in a real machine shop environment.  I like working from a copy making corrections on it as I work.  I normally find things need to be changed slightly while machining from what the drawing is, and also don’t note +- clearances, that’s done as parts are made.  Any changes on the copy are “usually” corrected on the original drawings.  Another nice thing about the drawing is I note what steel was used for each part.  That way I know anytime in the future what was used without any doubt.
Bob
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #70 - Nov 12th, 2022 at 9:28pm
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Grumpy gumpy wrote on Nov 11th, 2022 at 4:31pm:
The Russian who designed the margolin range of target pistols was blind, he would describe the part to the machinists and they would make it, he would then feel the part to see if it needed changes. Having said that I need detailed drawings and then I can build things if they are even slightly out of the ordinary. Bobw drawings are pretty good from what I can see of them.
Gumpy


He does, however, have issues with timber from time to time (Gumpy that is not bobw)
Grin
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #71 - Nov 16th, 2022 at 6:54pm
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Been working on the barrel.  I buy barrel blanks so they need profiling and polishing before anything else.  The first photo shows it done as far as I will take it for now.  I don't like polishing in the lathe, but that's what I have so I use it.  I cover and clean it when done.

Once profiled and polished I started working on the breech end features and threading.  The second and third photo show my setup for getting located on the center of the bore.  Luckily I have gage pins that run 1/10 of a thousandths each.  This is a Douglas barrel, I don't know if its intentional but the bore chokes down by a tenth of a thousandth.  .2508 to .2507.  I centered up on the bore and cut the lump from the end of the barrel that was left from profiling, then shortened the breach end a small amount.  After that was done I rechecked the the setup before turning the different features.  And, I rechecked again before threading.  I know its over kill but I just like to be sure everything is staying true to the bore.  I think the brass protectors give a little because I usually need to make small corrections.

The threading is complete in picture 4.

Photo 5 shows the barrel threaded to the receiver but there is still a gap showing between the receiver and barrel.  There is a decorative spacer that fills this area.
« Last Edit: Nov 16th, 2022 at 7:20pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #72 - Nov 16th, 2022 at 7:10pm
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The first photo in this post is of making the decorative spacer.

When done making it in the lathe I threw it on the surface grinder to get the thickness I wanted and make sure the sides were parallel. Then back in the lathe on a mandrel and polished it.  The marks on the face are from installing it on the mandrel and not hurting anything.

3 is the spacer installed on the barrel shank.

The last two pictures are the barrel fully installed, setup properly to the breech block and the spacer installed.

The spacer will need some decoration which will be done the same as the grip cap and the screw that retains the cap.  These will probably need to be engraved since the grip cap is elliptical. 

Now I can work on getting the extractor installed, firing pin in place and the firing pin transfer bar made and installed.  I'll cut a chamber later.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #73 - Nov 18th, 2022 at 11:41pm
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He does, however, have issues with timber from time to time (Gumpy that is not bobw)
Grin [/quote]

You make one monumental cockup with measuring something and no one forgets....oh hang on, I keep telling people what I did.....damm.
Smiley

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #74 - Nov 29th, 2022 at 9:17pm
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As I mentioned before this original gun did not have an extractor or firing pin because it was made as a breech loading percussion in the 1850 and 60's.

So, I have a working extractor now. Photo 1 shows it fitted in the frame but still needs fitted to the barrel.

Photo 2 show the frame machined slot.

3 and 4 shows it fitted to the barrel, fully open and near fully closed.

Bob
« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:20pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #75 - Nov 29th, 2022 at 9:44pm
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I had started working on the firing pin but ran into an issue where I need a collet that I did not have.  So the collect was ordered and I decided to work on the mortise where the tumbler will go.

I started by laying out what this area will look like and then roughing the area out by machining close to the lines and nearly full depth.  I used the rotary table to cut all the final radius's.  I did have to nudge the one around the tumbler hole to give me just a bit more clearance.

In the second photo the mortise is mostly complete, including the the trigger slot.  The larger right side tumbler hole is .314 or just over 5/16 inch. 

Photo 3 shows the left side tumbler support hole in the cover.  This hole is .1875 or 3/16 inch.  Also visible in this picture is a tool path at the bottom of the tumbler mortise.  I cut that path when I machined the inside of the lower tang.  This was incorrect.  At the time I was thinking the tumbler was the width of the tangs but that was wrong.  This should not interfere with anything, more on this later.
Looking at these pictures I see my drawing says this hole is .1865.  That is the shaft size I was thinking and apparently wrote that number down.

Photo 4 shows the trigger slot with the side plate installed. 
« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:16pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #76 - Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:01pm
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This first picture is shown just to give an idea where the rear of the frame is in relation to the tumbler mortise.  The left side of the ruler is the rear of the frame line.

In this last picture the mortise is complete.  The tool path I cut in error is shown but, now at the front of it is a round pocket.  The tool path and this pocket are now the same depth at .040.  The round pocket is where the trigger pivot screw will be.  The trigger was to have a .010 boss on each side, but now the side where I messed up will have one that will be .050 to make up for the error.
Bob
« Last Edit: Nov 29th, 2022 at 10:31pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #77 - Dec 2nd, 2022 at 12:46pm
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Back at the firing pin and transfer bar.

As I said earlier I had an issue that stopped me from working on this.  Originally I was drilling the firing pin hole and broke the drill bit off in the breech block.  I attribute this to trying to use a drill chuck in the mill rather than collets, the chuck has too much run out for drilling deep small holes.  I did not have a collet that would work at the time, but now have everyone in 64th inch in that series.

I marked the firing pin position through the bore after I got the barrel installed.  Then set the breech block up in the mill and drilled the hole size I wanted, this is when the drill bit broke.  To get the broken bit out I flipped the breech block over and ran a small carbide end mill down to the bit and then tapped the bit out with a punch.  This sounds easy but took at least 1 1/2 hours to get done because having to line up on the small pin hole from the back side.  I got lucky and pretty much hit it dead on!  

This first picture is the simple setup used to drill the pin hole.  Here I'm boring the large diameter from the back side which needs to line up with the small hole.  Getting this alignment correct is the trick....at least for me it is!  I started this hole with an end mill them moved to a drill bit and finally a reamer.  It's nearly impossible to start a drill bit on an angled surface the end mill corrects this for the drill.

While in the setup for boring the pin hole, and this being a transfer bar style firing pin, I machined the back slot for the transfer bar at the same angle as the pin.  I'm using a smaller firing pin than I normally do with a 3/16 body diameter. 
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #78 - Dec 2nd, 2022 at 1:24pm
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Once the pin hole and back slot were cut I then moved to the side slot.  I have never actually seen a transfer bar style firing pin apart, so this is my version of what I have seen in pictures.  Since the bar needs to move in and out with the firing pin, but needs to be restrained in the breech block, the side slot will have a key machined on the top and bottom.  This will allow it to slide in and out but keep it in place in the breech block.  A small screw from the back side will be adjustable to stop how far it can back out.  And the firing pin will be a separate part form the transfer bar.

This first picture is the setup used to machine the slot and keys.  I ran the indicator in the back slot to get it exactly vertical in the mill and then double checked it with a pin placed in the firing pin hole.  I used also used the slot and pin to setup the angle matching he pin angle, I simply angled the vice to get the correct angle. 

I ground a carbide 3/16 end mill to the width I wanted for the slot under the keys, .080.   Photo 2  The slot between the keys will be  .112 so the shank on this ground tool is .105.  The cutter is 3/16 in diameter.  

Phot 3.  Might be hard to see but the first step and inside width are  now complete to depth in the breech block, less a couple thousands that will be finished in the final step in machining the slot under the keys use the tool I made.

Photo 4.  The transfer bar machining is complete, except for a slot for the riser off the transfer bar that the hammer will actually strike.  The keys and under cut can be seen.  The sharp inside corner will be radiused, probably with a file.  The transfer bar will be radiused also, to match and add a small amount of strength to this area.

Bob
« Last Edit: Dec 2nd, 2022 at 1:29pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #79 - Dec 3rd, 2022 at 12:58pm
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Continuing with the firing pin setup this first photo is with some deburring and cleanup of the breech block after machining.

I wanted to check the dimensions of the machining in the breech block, before making the actual transfer bar, so I made a test piece to see how things fit.  The test bar slides in and out nicely with very little movement otherwise.  Now to get the actual transfer bar to fit the same!

The next couple photo are the test bar installed in the slot.  The second picture shows just a simple file fitted end radius, I wanted to besure it would fit the full length of the slot.   The final will be a machine fit.

The last photo is the breech block in the frame showing the transfer bar position.  The frame still needs the radius cut that will better expose and make more room for the hammer to hit the bar.

I sure hope this works!!
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #80 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 8:16pm
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Continuing with the breech block, firing pin and transfer bar this first picture is showing the new transfer bar still attached to the supporting steel but fitted to the breech block.

The second photo is the bar cut free.  I actually ended up making a second transfer bar because the first one was just slightly looser than what I wanted.  At this point the screw coming in from the rear that limits the travel is made and installed for testing it and eventually for assisting in the trimming of excess metal from the transfer bar so that it fits the breech block.

In this third photo the excess metal is gone and the breech block is installed.  I removed the excess transfer bar metal in the mill.  I locked the bar in its furthest rear position with the screw and started picking away at it with an end mill, which got me within .010 of the final size.  I finished it with files. The bar was a little sticky in the breech block so I lapped it in with 600 grit lapping compound.  

I have not made the firing pin at this point, I want to ream the pin hole a couple thousands bigger and am waiting for the reamer.  My intent is to have a spring under the front of the firing pin that pushes it and the transfer bar back.  The spring I have is slightly tight in the hole so I need that reamer.

The last two pictures are the finished breech block.  The retaining screw can be seen.  By adjusting this I can limit the rear travel of the transfer bar without interfering with the forward travel when the hammer hits it.  The the hammer lug will be cut down after the hammer is fully installed so they can be properly mated.
« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2022 at 8:23pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #81 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 8:23pm
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Whew, those old time, and one new guy were and are gluttons for punishment. My hat is off to you. The reward will come to you, and again thanks for sharing.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #82 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 8:29pm
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Thanks!!   
I have to admit, this just about had me throwing the whole project in the scrap bucket when I discovered the first transfer bar was loose and had to make it again. Cry
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #83 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 8:45pm
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I needed to get a hammer going so I started making the tumbler.  I'm not finishing it until the hammer is fully installed, then I can get the main spring, half cock and full cock notches in their correct positions.  So what you see is just rough shaped so I get some movement out of it.

This first photo shows it in the lathe which gave me the rough shape of the main body but more importantly the spindles so it fits and works in the frame.  This is being turned off center by 5/8 inch. 

The second photo is the tumbler ready to install.

Lastly, it's in after trimming it to fit in the mortise.  I went further than shown here and it fits much better now.  This was the only picture I took of the tumbler installed.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #84 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 9:00pm
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On to the hammer.

Rather than starting with steel, knowing there would be considerable filing required, I decided the first one would be from plastic.

This first picture is a poorly drawn first version on the plastic.  It morphed into a little different shape as I progressed, and the steel version will be changed even more so.

The last four pictures are the hammer shaping and fitting to the frame and breech block.  I think I will be able to lower the top of the hammer after I get the frame radius around the the breech block lowered, making it a bit lower profile hammer.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #85 - Dec 13th, 2022 at 9:11pm
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That frame radius, in front of the hammer, needed to be completed so here are some pictures of this area.

The first is the the rough out radius done with an end mill, and the second is the complete profile finished with a boring bar.

Lastly, is a top picture of this machining.  The left side hump will get touch up with a file, after I machine the loading trough in the frame.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #86 - Dec 14th, 2022 at 10:04am
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Bob,
Not for a moment did I believe you would toss this project  Grin it's one of those now that you are committed to.   
I didn't pay any attention to the internals of the original I had in my hands, I'll look next time... the '74 has a small protrusion on the front of the transfer bar that fits a recess in the mortice when the block is at battery.  When the breech block begins to move the transfer bar pushes the hammer back off the firing pin.  Just something else to look at and ponder  Roll Eyes  You may have to make another transfer bar  Grin Grin
(I wouldn't Smiley )

Greg
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #87 - Dec 14th, 2022 at 11:53am
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Greg, I looked at lots of breech block and had not noticed the protrusion you are referring too.  This one will need the hammer moved to half cock before lowering the breech block.  The biggest issue with this transfer bar is the round breech block which really limits the area on the bar for the hammer to hit.  If I was to make another one I would make some changes, but they would be to make it easier to machine and a little stronger.  I have some concerns about how it will stand up to the hammer strike.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #88 - Dec 22nd, 2022 at 8:33pm
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Needed to get at the hammer but, before that, I needed the cartridge tray machined in the frame.

So, this is just a series of pictures showing the progress.  That's a 25-20ss in the tray.  Also showing is the machined cut-out for clearance of the hammer nose.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #89 - Dec 23rd, 2022 at 12:18pm
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Moving on to the hammer! 
I ended up making a couple versions from delrin plastic in order to get something I think will work.  Then basically copied the final example.

The first photo shows the really rough start to shaping.  This hammer has been much more difficult to make than I thought it would be.  Getting the angle correct in the throw, angle of the head, getting the head rolled over far enough to get to the transfer bar and making it strong enough was an interesting process.

Second photo, things are starting to come together and looking like it will work.  The excess steel on the bottom just gives me something to hold on to.

Third photo, this is the best finish, on curved surfaces, that I can get on my manual CNC mill.  Looks much worse than it was.  Took about 10 minutes to clean up with files.

Fourth photo, after some file work things are looking better.

5, Started to roughly get the shaping started.  This was just to make sure I liked what was going on with what will become the final shape.
Also have not made the screw that will retain the hammer, the one shown is robbed from a ML flintlock lock.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #90 - Dec 23rd, 2022 at 12:34pm
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Here is a picture of the transfer bar in it's final configuration.  The slight cut out in the breech block, left of the bar, is for hammer clearance and fitting and getting the hammer into the frame.

The last couple photos are of how the hammer acts against the transfer bar.

Have a great Christmas everyone!
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #91 - Dec 23rd, 2022 at 12:59pm
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Just amazing! Keep the updates coming.
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #92 - Dec 23rd, 2022 at 2:46pm
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I agree, just amazing! Not being a machinist I am really enjoying this thread.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #93 - Dec 24th, 2022 at 10:37pm
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Bob,
The hammer is coming along nicely!  I've slugged through a couple, they are a lot of work.  I was going to make one a little different for the little sharps I have going, found something close from Rodney so I'm backing off starting from scratch.
Thank for sharing.
Greg
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #94 - Dec 25th, 2022 at 11:05am
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bob, great job. i have really enjoyed watching the progress and the conversations we have had but i see gregs influence on you(the rubber band ).  tony<><
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #95 - Jan 12th, 2023 at 9:28pm
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Thanks guys.

Tony, the rubber band has become the universal retainer...thanks to Greg!

Been picking away at this project in between others, including a couple SxS shotguns and a rook rifle, but haven't taken time to post anything here so thought I'd better get caught up.

I have the tumbler roughly shaped so it will work in the frame, with the trigger and main spring.

The trigger is in place as shown in this first picture.  Still has lots of shaping to make it look better and maybe a bit more graceful.  Also, had to open up the lever a little to allow the trigger freedom to move.  The knob actually has the finished screw hiding under it.  It's handy in speeding up the removal of the trigger while fitting and will be cut off in the end, then the screw slot cut

This second picture is showing the cutout, red arrow, for the tenon on the head of the stock.  The tenon will be fitted into this as I stock the gun, which helps to stabilize the the wood to frame fit.

3, shows the machined taper to the front frame sides.  This was done by setting the frame in the mill at an angle and machining, then repeating on the other side.  This will be blended to the rear with files when I finish shaping the frame.


  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #96 - Jan 12th, 2023 at 9:34pm
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This picture shows getting the trigger spring made and fitted to the frame and trigger.  I cut this from a chunk of 1080 steel, ground it to the thickness I needed, then hardened and tempered after the fitting and shaping. I hardened by heating to red and quenched in oil.  To temper, this is a small thin spring so I polished and reheated to a dark straw color and quenched in oil again, repolished and called it done.
« Last Edit: Jan 12th, 2023 at 10:25pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #97 - Jan 12th, 2023 at 10:05pm
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Started making the main spring.  In this first picture you can see the spring blank setting in the frame pocket.  This spring is also machined  from 1080 steel.

In the second picture the spring is split between the two legs and the lower leg is shortened up just to get rid of the excess.

In 3 the spring is a little further along but, I have forgot to mention the link.  I shaped the tumbler to fit the link, drilled the hole and split the tumbler for link and the pin.  
This is the first link I made which was 3/8 inch (.375) center to center on the holes, but it was just a little long so I made a second one that was .335.  This second one gave the spring more room for when the hammer falls.

The fourth picture show the spring right from the final tempering process.  I'm a little archaic in my spring process.  I harden the spring by taking it to full red/orange color and quench in oil.  To temper I just cover the hardened spring with 30 wt. motor oil and heat the underside of the tin until the oil ignites.  I keep it burning until the oil is mostly gone, the spring is now tempered and done at this point.  Eventually, I will polish the spring for the final assembly.

In this final picture I am showing both the trigger spring and the main spring in position.  While the trigger spring is working well, the same is not true for the main spring.  I thought I made the main plenty heavy and would need to modify it after heat treating to ease up the tension from it but, it appears to be too weak.  I got it installed late today so tomorrow I will look at a couple thing that might help but I'm fairly certain I'm going to be making another one....I new this one was going way to good and fit way to nice! Angry
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #98 - Jan 17th, 2023 at 7:29pm
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The tail of three springs! Cry

The first spring did need a replacement made, not only was it a bit weak but it broke right where I was concerned it would, at the end of the cut slot.  Made about 10 cycles of the hammer.

First photo....So, the second spring was made a little differently with the slot farther forward.  I was thinking the spring would not be stressed as much with the end of the slot moved forward out of that high stress area. But, it broke before I even got it compressed in the gun.  The break was about 3/8th inch in front of the end of the slot.  I am suspecting a stress point, or I missed on the tempering.  I'm believing it was a stress point more than the tempering because it was hard to get in that area to clean up the saw marks and polish the spring.  Even though it was tough to get into, I thought it was polished very well but still could have been a small saw mark I couldn't see.

Second photo...I used 1080 steel for the first two spring and basically machined them from solid bar stock.  This third spring was made from a piece of 1075 steel that was 1/8th inch thick.  As can be seen I folded this over on its self, forming the spring.  Before folding, the steel was polished so I did not need to get into that tight area after the bending.  This spring heat treated and tempered nicely.  Was a little bit of a battle getting it into the frame and was too strong.  I wanted it strong to start and then planned to thin it in order to get what I wanted. I cycled it several times and believed I had it working. This is where I ended yesterday, leaving the spring in the frame.

Third photo....I left it in the full cock position for the night.  Unlocked the shop this morning and checked it, before having my morning coffee, and it was broke as seen in the picture.

Needless to say it was a bit disappointing!  Took today and probably a couple more off from this gun.   

Still had a good day though!  Got the little rook rifle shooting.  It's chambered in 300 rook and I need to figure out how to get loads working in it and I got that all worked out and test fired.   
This rook is going to be a fun little gun!
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #99 - Jan 17th, 2023 at 7:41pm
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That stinks on the third spring. I almost wonder if you could make or use something like the Colt dragoon.

Mike
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #100 - Jan 17th, 2023 at 10:25pm
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You have my sympathy, bobw.  I’ve never found the hardening and tempering of springs the walk in the park so often described in gunsmithing books or articles.

Maybe it’s because I burn off the quenching oil in the hubcap of a ‘48 Dodge rather than a ‘36 Ford, but my score seems steady at two wet noodles and one broken one for every usable one.

This is a great thread, nonetheless.
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #101 - Jan 18th, 2023 at 11:54am
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Bent_Ramrod, I’ve had good luck with this method, only had one spring that ended up soft after tempering and it just collapsed, but I think it was my fault.  I kept lots if heat under it trying to hurry the process and don’t do that anymore.

msellers, hadn’t thought about pistol springs, good call!  It can’t be a single leaf spring where a screw retains it.  But, I have contacted a guy on a colt python spring asking for dimensions, it looks pretty close to correct.  Thanks
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #102 - Jan 18th, 2023 at 1:36pm
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Bob, feel your pain. The oil burn tempering technique has never worked for me. Large springs come out too hard and small springs too soft.
Generally use the fertilizer nitre blue pot heated to 700°F per the lead thermometer. Large springs get 20-30 minutes.
Want the springs to yield before they break. Lead pot might work if you keep it submerged but never tried it for larger springs.
Chuck
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #103 - Jan 18th, 2023 at 7:19pm
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Chuck, you are more than likely correct.  I always try to shy away from the lead pot method because I was under the impression spring should be tempered between 425 and 600 degrees.  I may go ahead and try it on this one because it is larger than a normal spring I treat.

I’m kicking myself now for not buying a heat treat furnace, on black Friday, when they had 25% off!  If heat treat is the issue, the cost would have been cheap per hour at this point.

I really think someone was trying to tell me I needed a break from this gun anyway, so I am!
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #104 - Jan 18th, 2023 at 11:23pm
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Should note that I normally use O-1 tool steel (about 1095) for mainsprings.
Chuck
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #105 - Jan 20th, 2023 at 1:20pm
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bob,  greg has "affected" a lot of people in different ways,  he has so many rabbit holes he's going down  he's got to inspire  someone somehow.   thanks greg   tony<><
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #106 - Jan 26th, 2023 at 5:47pm
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Spring number four is installed and so far holding.  It's made it through several cycles of the hammer and while a little stiff, is working well.  My new method of tempering springs will now be using lead.  I held the lead temp at just around 630 and soaked the spring for 20 minutes.  Once I know for sure it will be okay in a few days, I will thin it so the hammer is a little easier to work.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #107 - Jan 27th, 2023 at 3:22pm
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Always remember with heat treating that time is your friend.

If you can hold that lead bath constant for a longer period, draw the temper for 2 hours. Remove the spring, and let it cool to room temperature, then repeat the draw cycle. This is your ductility draw.

I have done this procedure for a long time - I have too much time in a lot of springs to have breakages.
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #108 - Jan 28th, 2023 at 12:10pm
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Thanks cudog.  It was tough enough holding that temp a few minutes.  I’ve always had good luck with springs until this one.  I’m thinking by the end of the year I will have a small heat treat oven.  I have other uses for it anyway so it would be nice to have.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #109 - Jan 29th, 2023 at 8:55am
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The furnace I use is a small Evenheat model I bought from one of the knife making supply houses. It can be programmed to do five different cycles, so I have tool steel, springs, anneal all ready to go.

The only regret about getting one is why you didn't do it sooner!

Also, get some proper quench oil - engine oil, or any other witchcraft mix is not good enough. I keep mine in a large crockpot so it can be warmed to the correct temperature before quenching the steel.

Heat treatment is a known and proven process, as long as you know what steel you are using, is is very predictable if you follow the correct procedure.

Everything else is witchcraft.
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #110 - Jan 29th, 2023 at 6:55pm
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The last couple days I've been playing around with the lever and lever spring.  Of course I needed to design and make the spring.  In the picture the spring is not attached to the barrel but the false barrel stub instead.  I needed to now exactly where the spring was to be positioned and this gave me a good test without messing up the barrel.  Now that I know where the screw goes it an easy transition to the barrel.  Parts are just rough finished but the lever is closing and holding closed.  When closing it snaps shut with a nice firm snap. The lever profile is also starting to take shape now, although I think it looks a bit heavy, so when I start really fine tuning the function and look of the different parts, I will correct this.  Next it will get chambered and test fired.
The only major thing left, after that, is the lever pin, the sharps style with the lever attached on the right side that rotate to remove the pin.  Not sure how I'm going to make that yet.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #111 - Jan 30th, 2023 at 9:23pm
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Here is a picture of an original rifle showing the lever pin setup.  The spring loaded button is pushed in, to allow the lever to rotate, releasing the pin so that it can be removed from the frame and lever.. 
So today I worked out how deep the counterbore for the pin needed to be and how the pin was to be retained in the frame.  Not knowing how the original was setup, these last two pictures show what I came up with.  The depth of the counter bore is obvious but you can also see the under cut that will retain the pin.   This under cut will also stop the pin from rotating counter clockwise, clockwise rotation is stopped by the spring loaded button.   The lever will have the tab machine in it to fit undercut slot.  Once the lever is rotated clockwise far enough, the pin will be released from the undercut and can be removed.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(It seems I actually winning!)
Reply #112 - Feb 1st, 2023 at 6:41pm
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I finally got to a point I felt comfortable cutting away the excess metal on the tangs.  In the first picture I have it mounted on the rotary table which just help me line up the angle of the top tang.  Using an end mill, I just cut the tang loose on the line I was wanting.

In the second photo the excess is gone.   
The frame, the way it sits here with no parts installed, weighs 13.2 ounces.

The last photo shows a comparison between the Sharps Pistol Rifle action and a Stevens 44 action.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #113 - Feb 1st, 2023 at 7:07pm
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Here are a couple photo of the assembled action with the barrel installed, left and right sides.  It is fully functional and will be chambered this weekend and test fired.   

There is still lots of work to do though! Wink

At this point, with the barrel 2 1/2 inches longer than it will end up, the assembled action and barrel weigh in at 4 pounds 12 ounces.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #114 - Feb 5th, 2023 at 12:47pm
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The gun is now chambered and the extractor fitted.  It was a bit tight around the chamber for loading an actual shell.  I had to remove some metal from the front of the breech block and the front of the loading trough.  This didn't really surprise me because I wasn't sure where things would end up after the chambering and I had already planned on lowering the breech block anyway.  I chambered it in 25-20ss and I think this is the largest shell rim I would try to fit to this frame.  A 22 long rifle would have been a smarter choice but I already have several guns already in 22 lr and wanted something different. 

I fired 12 primed shells while it was still in the lathe for chambering and am pleased with the primer strike, especially since the firing pin angle is setting at 24 degrees, and it fired everyone on the first strike.  The transfer bar is also working very nicely so far.

I did a live fire at the range yesterday, 10 rounds and no problems, except extraction was a bit cumbersome, but when I get the breech block and loading trough opened up I believe it will be much easier.

Photo of the firing pin strike on the primers.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #115 - Feb 5th, 2023 at 1:57pm
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Nice bull's-eye, congrats! You never fail to amaze.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #116 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 7:16pm
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I now have the frame opened up a little more in the cartridge trough area.  I deepened it at the front .050 to 0 at the rear and widened it .045. It's much easier to get the shell in and extraction works much better.  Put ten more rounds through it and everything worked good.

Functionally the action is working, although it still needs quite bit of refinement.   

But, I decided to start contouring the frame anyway, getting it to the rough final shape.  I started on top, at the front, shaping the transition between the barrel and back into the frame.  Here are four pictures as it progressed on the right side.  Sorry about the white fuzzy stuff, it's the chalk that I use on my files!  Next I'll move to the other side and get it the same shape as this side, then refine both later in the final shaping.  But, this is really close to being the finished shape.  Although, now that I look closer at the pictures, I do see some work that needs done around the top edge.   
I take these pictures and it's surprising how ofter I see things I need to do different or change when looking at them.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #117 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 9:27pm
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Wow. That sure has come a long way since the hunk of plastic was being used to conjure the right direction to go. Greg and you always manage to humble most of us with the superb creations that come from your shops. Nice to see this one on a cool winter night.   Smiley
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #118 - Feb 11th, 2023 at 11:32pm
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Bob,
That is really coming along!   

I took a break from a damaged high wall I've been trying to revive and dove down a deep crevasse - and I'm still falling.  I'm doing an action with English origins, a Webley with a round block, it's the second one of these round block actions I've tackled.  Not going to admit that is a favorite nor one I despise - the jury is still out.  I am real happy you kept pushing on this.  Thanks for sharing.
Greg
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #119 - Feb 13th, 2023 at 10:39am
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Thanks guys.

Greg, what model Webley is that?  Tried a search but didn't find any thing. I assume it's got a centered hammer rather than a side like this Sharps.  A central hammer would change some of the difficulty in a build to other areas, but sure would make the breech block easier to deal with.

This is just an update with photos of the rough shaped front done.  This is just a file finish at this point, I will refine the shape slightly with stones and paper later.

Started looking at the shaping to the rear of the frame, where it hooks up to the wood, and having some questions that are proving a little difficult to solve.  All the pictures I had appear to show a short flat area on the side of the frame, not a fully rounded frame, and I question this is true.  Pictures can be deceiving.  I have a feeler out to an owner of an original and waiting for an answer, hoping he can clear it up.  But, last night while digging around on the net I found a picture that appears that it is round, at least on that gun.  So today I will start playing with this and see what happens!
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #120 - Feb 13th, 2023 at 11:43am
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Bob,
It's a model 1902 Round block from one of Rodney's castings, it's an internal hammer so a "horse of a completely different color".  I've been going to start a post on its build but my extra spare time has been spent on chasing shooting events in a different discipline.  I'll crash your post with a couple of pix I just resized.  It's going to be a 22rf so the original cast breech block wasn't going to work very well so I made another.  That and the barrel are almost fit... more at a later date. 
Pardon the intrusion.
Greg
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #121 - Feb 13th, 2023 at 12:06pm
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Not a problem Greg, the thread needs some diversity!


“It's a model 1902 Round block from one of Rodney's castings, it's an internal hammer so a "horse of a completely different color"
Greg, I’ve discovered that the British don’t do anything the easy way!
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #122 - Feb 13th, 2023 at 8:31pm
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This first photo is showing all the layout lines for the rear section of the right side of the frame.

The second photo is the rough finished upper section.

Third is the roughed out lower section.

This last is taken from the rear showing the curvature of the frame where the wood will hook up.  I had machined the rebate in the frame.  This rebate is for the wood tongue that engages the frame and holds the front of the stock in place.  I had some concerns that I went too deep and wouldn't be able to get the curvature at the back of the frame because of the corners.  As can be seen I have room to spare and could still add more radius, if I decide to.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #123 - Feb 13th, 2023 at 8:45pm
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This first photo shows making a template to copy the profile to the left side.  This will at least get me close to looking the same between the two sides.

I have not yet machined the rebate on the left side for the wood.  It will be done once the profile is roughed. Since it's the side cover this is easy enough to do.

The next two photo are the layout lines for the left side.  These lines are not absolute and will be adjusted as I work the metal down.  The screw will be profiled at the same time, so my plan is to align (index) the screw slot with the angle of the profile so that the slot depth is somewhat consistent in its width.  I will do this side tomorrow.

All shaping of these contours is being completed with files of different sizes.
Bob
« Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2023 at 8:50pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #124 - Feb 13th, 2023 at 10:04pm
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WOW! You are a true inspiration in the details you are putting into form. This thread never ceases to impress.

Mike
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #125 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 1:51pm
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Bob-You say the British don't do anything the easy way.  I can agree with that, but your Sharps isn't exactly a walk in the park.  It has as many complications as any British gun. 

Greg-You need to start a thread on the 1902 Webley.  I have had one of those for a long time that I really want to get to, but just haven't put it high enough on the priority list.  I am very curious to hear what issues you have had with it.   

Bruce
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #126 - Feb 14th, 2023 at 11:57pm
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Bob, you have some skills with the files!! Greg and Bruce here is my 1902 Webley about 90% finished. The lever kind of put me off at first, but it grows on you. It makes a wicked, fast light little rifle.
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #127 - Feb 16th, 2023 at 10:59pm
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Rodney, looks like you have some skills with wood, very nice.   

You must not be paying attention in Gregs class!!! Grin
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #128 - Feb 19th, 2023 at 1:42pm
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Got back on this little guy yesterday.  Most of this week was spent helping a friend profile a barrel blank to full octagon and getting it on the action.  He's never really done this type of work before so he's in for a real surprise treat when he starts stocking the gun, Stevens 44, from a blank. Grin

This picture is just showing that the rough shaping is done on the action, and the screws are now timed where I wanted them.   

I'm starting to get ready to start the stocking of this gun.  I've sent to tumbler off for some welding repair.  I changed the position of the full cock notch and now need more meat, above the new notch, in order to cut the half cock notch.  I included here one of the pictures I sent to the welder so he knows what I am wanting done.  The tumblers quite small and will fit on the end of a finger, so he will probably have something too say about the size and how much trouble it was.  But, he alway does a nice job.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #129 - Feb 21st, 2023 at 12:26pm
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I'm now starting to look at getting the action ready for wood.  So, I hadn't machined the holes for the tang screws and need to get them done. 

This first photo is the setup I use to drilling and tapping all my holes.  I don't hold the tap freehand but keep it rigid with a rod, tapered on the end, positioned in the top of the tap holder and held in a milling collet.  This setup helps, when tapping small holes, by not breaking the tap!

Second photo shows the completed tang.  The front hole is tapped 8-32.  Since I make all my own screws I make the heads a size I have tooling for.  In this case the rear is 1/4 inch and the front is 7/32.  I also generally use fillister heads on both machine style screws and wood screws.  Easy enough to do when making your own.
Bob
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #130 - Feb 21st, 2023 at 12:42pm
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The next thing needing done in the prep for wood is some reshaping of the tangs in order to make wood inletting a little easier.  When originally machined the tang sides are straight.  I like having them tapered slightly for inletting.  So I hand filed the tangs with a taper, front to rear, of .003.  I would normally like a little more but the style and shape between top and bottom make it tough to do since they both need inletting at the same time and, the bottom of the front tang eventually gets a fitted cap, so it needs to be straight front to rear.  If it is not straight the cap might not be able to be kept tight.  This cap can be seen on the original gun in some of the first posts of this thread.  This photo is just showing the reshaped tangs......not really much to see though!
Bob
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #131 - Feb 21st, 2023 at 1:01pm
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These next two posts are really going to bore you! Smiley

When building a gun, as you have seen in many pictures, I draw out most everything, this includes the wood portions.  By drawing, I get things straight in my head of the process's I need to go through to complete the project.  So I thought I would show how I start and the transitions of the drawings as I do them.  Boring...I know, but maybe someone will pickup something from this!

The first thing I do is get the action or at least part of the action on the paper.  This first and second photo shows this.

Once the action is on paper, I need to start placing the drop, at both nose and heel of the comb. The indicated point at the nose is also the point where the nose will roll forward into the grip area.  This are now positioned on this next photo. 

In this fourth photo I have drawn in the length of pull, which then allowed me to draw in the shape of the butt plate.

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #132 - Feb 21st, 2023 at 1:15pm
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In this first photo I have drawn in the bottom profile of the stock, along with some of the detail of the grip area.

The second picture is the drawing with the chunk of walnut that will hopefully become the stock!

After studying the drawing, I came to the conclusion the lower profile line just didn't look right.  The flow between the upper wrist and the lower line just didn't work.  By adding a little more perch belly the lines work much better than the earlier drawing showed.....at least in my opinion it does! Grin   At this same time I made the grip cap area slightly smaller in length.  The original lines can still be seen, as erased, in this picture.  Also can be seen in this last photo, are the grip cap, butt plate and all the proposed screws attaching them.
Bob
« Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2023 at 11:29am by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #133 - Feb 21st, 2023 at 2:16pm
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That small rearrangement of the lower stock's profile really does make an improvement. As has been said of art, 'I'm not an expert, but I know what I like.' 
This rifle is beginning to grow on me. I hope we can see a report on how well it shoots after you get it all together. But, take your time, the fun of seeing it progress is pretty nice, too. Thanks.
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #134 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 4:41pm
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I'm in awe of this whole project.  In particular, how much better the slight perch-belly makes the stock is very instructive - i.e., even when one design works and looks ok, it likely never hurts to try some variations thereof before saying "done".

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #135 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 8:32pm
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Thanks guys.  Not entirely sure how much belly the original has, but it does have some. Hard to tell from the pictures but it appears straighter than my version.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #136 - Feb 22nd, 2023 at 8:58pm
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Got started on adding the wood to the frame.  This is an unusual stocking for me because both tangs are attach to the frame and not removable.  In addition, the front tang extended to the read forming the bottom of the grip.  This extension creates an issue with inletting from the stand point of the depth in the wood it needs to get to, the deeper a part is inlet the more chance of removing/damaging wood and loosing the good final fit that shows.  My plan was inlet the top tang straight in and let the lower just follow it in. This seems to be working but it is tough to get a good tight fit of wood to metal.

First and second pictures show the beginning and the progress.  To make things tougher, this wood is difficult to work because of the crazy grain.  You need to make every cut in the correct direction or it will chip out.  It  reminds me of a piece of curly maple the way it works.

Third picture show the frame has contacted the head of the wood.  Note the inletting black.

The last two show the frame against the head of the stock.  Have an 1/8th inch to go.  This 1/8th inch is where the wood tenons are formed and fitted into the back of the frame and at the same time the wood is also fitted against the back of frame.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #137 - Feb 26th, 2023 at 8:58pm
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Continuing with getting the frame attached to the wood, this first picture shows the top tang inletting.  The wood was tough to work with on this top side.   Not the prettiest, but I think it will work.  We will see once the shaping is underway!

Next three photos are the bottom tang inlet, like I said before, it is a deep one.  The wood worked much better here.  The tenon and fit to the face of the frame is also seen here. 
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #138 - Feb 26th, 2023 at 9:02pm
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These next two are the frame in its final place and fit against the wood.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #139 - Feb 26th, 2023 at 10:08pm
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When stocking a gun, once the action is attached, you need a butt plate in order to setup the other dimensions...drop, pull length, cast off or on  and pitch.  There is no cast in this stock, some pitch, so drop and pull are the main reason I need a butt plate....which I don't seem be able to find that is already made.

So, I decided to make a stab at making one.

After machining the steel to a rough thickness, I laid out the pattern and band sawed the front profile leaving a margin of steel for the final machining, as shown in this first picture.

Now on to my manual CNC mill. In this second photo I have the machining to the line nearly done.  And in the third photo I'm done.  The final finish work will be done with files.

The forth photo show holes I drilled to to get started with machining the back of the plate.  

In the last photo I'm back to my manual CNC'ing of the back of the plate.  I'll cut it loose later after I do the filing to cleanup from the milling and, shaping to the stock profile and width.  But for now I need the extra steel for something to hold on to.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #140 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 8:21pm
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Continuing with making the butt plate.

After getting the general shape of the plate laid out, I started picking away at it in the mill roughing out the shape.  Photo 1

The second photo is the finished, roughed out plate.  Since I manually run the mill, I machine in close then push up to the lines.  Anyone who has run a mill with backlash knows you better do this machining in the correct direction or things go south fast and you end up with a broken end mill at best, damaged scrap part is the worst.  Although, even when you are paying attention things go wrong, I broke an end mill earlier when working on the wide rear face while roughing out the shape.  Got into a pinched situation and the mill did not like it, luckily the plate wasn't damaged.

The third photo shows the forward extension is now laid out.  I have also started shaping the top of the plate around to the sides, using files.  But, what I was really wanting to show here is the shaping of the inside radius of the corner.  You can see I have connected the side to the forward extension.  When making something like this plate, you need to be thinking constantly about fitting it to the wood.  This radius, as shown, is straight up and down.  In order to fit to the wood this needs to be angled more toward the center.  If not done correctly there will be a very thin edge of wood here that would be very fragile. 

In this fourth photo you can see the shaping of the radius versus the other side, which just has the layout line showing and has not been shaped yet.

5. Once the side radius's were complete, I then completed the balance of the extension.  Back in the mill, and since it's a tapered extension, I roughed it out the best I could by picking away at it.  It will be finished with files
Bob

  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #141 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:01pm
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When laying out the extension I used a radius gage to form the curved tip.  Sorry about this first picture quality, but was having problems get the camera to focus, so had to hold something neutral behind it.  This radius could have been machined using a rotary table but it took me 5 minutes to shape it with a file.  This shows the start of the shaping, but as a side thought here.....when shaping a part with files, by keep the filing square and straight, as here in this picture, the filing will be at the same angle as the surface being worked.  This may seem simple, but I have been surprised how many people do not realize this when filing.

When shaping a curved surface I usually file facets into the curved surface down to the layout line.  Then it's a simple operation to finish the radius.  This filing was done just so I could snap this picture for a visual.

3. Once I think it is complete, I look at it carefully against a light background, making sure it is the same on both sides.  I then make small correction until I'm satisfied.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #142 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 9:50pm
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Photo 1, Starting the shaping the sides of the plate.  This is where a layout, like this center line, helps.  By working to or away from this center line the top of the extension will stay straight and clean looking.

The second photo shows what the side looks like after a few minutes with a file.

In this third photo the right side is filed to shape, the left side has not been touched.  On the left side can be seen a layout line, toward the center of the side, which indicates the width of the plate.  Then at the top, hard to see, there is a line forming the shape there.

4.  I've started shaping the top radius of the plate.  The width line is still visible, along with the rough surface from the mill work.

5.  The plate is mostly shaped.  It will still need some tweaking, but for the most part it is done.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #143 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 10:03pm
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Photo 1, This is what it looked like after the previous file work.  After this picture was taken I did do some of that tweaking I talked about before.  If you look close, the right side here is slightly wider, than the left, at the top and bottom, the center is fine.  So I worked it down with a file until it looked more like the left side.

2.  I have now cut it loose from the lager piece of metal and worked the back of the butt plate on a grinder.  This is what is called, really rough shaping!

3. The side the plate after grinding.  Now I will start in with files.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #144 - Feb 28th, 2023 at 10:36pm
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Photo 1, The center line is reestablished for shaping the plates rear surface.

Photo 2, if you look close, the side layout line is established, thick at the top and thin at the bottom.  I have also started shaping at the top.

3. Now can be seen what the side of the plate profile looks like.  While shaping this profile I keep the file at a high angle and just shaping to this line without working toward the center of the plate.  I finished both side before moving to the next step.

4. Now I'm tapering and thinning from the edge to the center line. Shaping a butt plate like this, you end up with the strength from the thick center section but the look of a much lighter plate when looking at it from the side.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle(In the attempt to build phase)
Reply #145 - Mar 1st, 2023 at 6:21pm
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As I was shaping, I really need the upper portion of the plate shaped and I was procrastinating because..... first, I wasn't sure of the shaping  and second, I really didn't want to do it, I knew it would be lots of work!  And it was!

The upper end has this knob that a screw goes through to retain the plate.  So I found the center and laid out the circle and started filing away.  Actually started by grinding off most of the wast first.

Here are a couple pictures of that shaping process and then a couple more of the finished butt plate.  There will still be some small modifications to be made but they can be completed once it's on the stock.  I will install this thing sometime in the couple days.

Just in case anyone is curious and wondering if I would make another one......NO.  
The only way I would, is if I had no other choice in order to get what I wanted.  This thing was a lot of work and a pain in the ass.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #146 - Mar 11th, 2023 at 1:34pm
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These  photos show getting the tang screws in place.  The back is a wood screw but, the front is a machine style screw that connect to the lower tang.  I make both screws with head the way I like them.

Sorry I didn't take photo while setting up the front screw.   When drilling the hole through the wood, I had to hit a blind hole that does not come through the bottom of the lower tang.  So in the mill, the holes were lined up with the wood removed.  I held the screw in a collet and adjusted the frame until the screw would turn freely into the lower tang, through he upper.  Once this was done the wood was reinstalled and the hole drilled.  Worked perfect.

At this point both screw heads are left long and will be trimmed and timed later.
Bob

  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #147 - Mar 11th, 2023 at 1:45pm
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Once the screws have the wood fastened securely, I laid out the rough dimensions of the stock, most importantly the center line, the center line will stay on until mostly done shaping.  It will be redrawn many times though out the work. This can be tricky, I use to do it with a steel straight edge.  But, any more I install the frame, with the stock installed, in the mill.  I find two center points on the frame, one at the front and another at the rear.  Once those points are lined up with the axes's of the mill I simply run it down the stock and mark a couple point on the wood, then draw a pencil line through both points.  I do this on top and bottom.

The fist photo shows the bottom layout and the second shows the top with the butt center line also.

Looking at the butt line it looks off from the sides of the wood.  This is either from me attaching the frame slightly tipped or the wood twisted.  I don't really care which it is because I feel confident in my layout using the mill.

If I wanted to add cast (on, off or toe) to the stock, I would simply measure from these centered lines and add a second line showing the cast.  Then all other layout would be based off these new lines.  This stock will not have any cast.
Bob
« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2023 at 1:51pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #148 - Mar 11th, 2023 at 1:56pm
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I also got a little bit of a start on the forearm.  I used the mill as a router and plowed out the start of the channel for the barrel.  I measure the barrel at the small or front where the forearm will end and cut the channel just under that size.  It will be inlet by hand from here.

First photo is the mill setup.  I'm using a router bit here.

Second shows the fit to the barrel.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #149 - Mar 17th, 2023 at 12:58pm
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Back to the butt plate and it's installation.

I think the detail installation of a butt plate has been covered by a few of us in this forum, so I will bypass that info.  This first pictures shows the inletting black used during the fitting and, that I'm very close to being done with the fitting.  Also, when fitting a butt plate it it important to keep it aligned with your layout line, whether with cast or not.  In addition it needs to run straight and true with the upper profile of the comb, it should not point up or down.

Photo 2 shows the final fit of the plate.

In photo 3 I have the counter bore and hole drilled for the heel screw.  The original appears to have a screw head the same size as the heel spur.  I decided I would try a captured screw head instead.  I can still do the full head if I decide I don't like it this way.

The next two photo show the heel screw in place and also the other two plate screws in place.  As usual these are my shop made wood screws and the heads will be trimmed and timed later.  The straight unthreaded shank of the screws are long enough that they enter into the wood and act like a locating pin to help in keeping the plate in position.
Bob
« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2023 at 1:07pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #150 - Mar 17th, 2023 at 1:14pm
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Next up is the making of the grip cap as shown in this picture of the original gun.  I wasn't sure how or if I could make this cap.  It's elliptical in shape and has a concave radius on the upper line where it fits against the wood.  I do have it made and it turned out pretty ok.  I will continue later with how I completed the making of it.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #151 - Mar 17th, 2023 at 9:40pm
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I started making the grip cap on the lathe with a piece of 2 inch steel.  I turned a shaft to 5/8 inch, leaving the thickness (.105) as a 2 inch flange that will end up as the cap.

I was distracted while turning this and completely forgot to take pictures while in the lathe, but this first photo is of the part after it came out of the lathe and some work had been done in the mill.  You can see what will be the parting line that will become the bottom of the cap.  The drawing just above the part shows this.  I have also machined a flat on each side that will align with the long side of the ellipse.

Photo 2. While in the lathe I put a small center in the top of the cap to assist in laying it out.  The outside rim is the 2 inch diameter of the original steel.  The outside drawn ring references the long side of the ellipse, and the small ring the short side.  I used a sharp scribe, in the mill, to mark the long and short side, forming an elongated cross.

Photo3. The radial lines are marked at 30 degrees then intersecting line marked, these intersecting lines can be see.  These lines are then used to hand draw the ellipse as shown.  At this point I had started machining the cap, making it square and to the line.

Photo 4. From there I just picked away at it until I had the rough shape of the cap.

Photo 5.  All roughed out.  Now I will attack it with a file and finish to shape.  Notice I didn't say to the line, the line was not good enough to finish the shaping, I finished it by eye and using the line only as a reference.

  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #152 - Mar 17th, 2023 at 10:08pm
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This first photo shows the file finished cap, but not completed yet. 

Photo 2. As I said before there is a small radius, in the edge of the cap, all the way around.  The small diameter, of this radius, is what forms the shape of the wood portion of the grip.  The picture shows the layout lines that will help in accomplishing this.  The radius can be seen in the drawing just above the part.

Photo 3.  I have a ball end mill mounted that will form this radius.  Like the outer, I just started with straight cuts up against the line.

Photo 4.  I started cutting then moved the cut in and down to the line.  

Photo 5.  Then by picking away at it, I ended up with this.  As usual, it will be finished with files.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #153 - Mar 17th, 2023 at 10:13pm
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The rest of these pictures are different views of the finished grip cap.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #154 - Mar 19th, 2023 at 11:28pm
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Today I had some time to get the cap positioned on the bottom of the grip.  It did take some time to get the front edge, of the cap, aligned with the front of the grip rail.  Once that was figured out it was easy to get the hole drilled and tapped for the screw.  In order to keep the cap from spinning over time the cap was drilled and reamed for a locating pin.  Once the grip was threaded it was easy to get the matching hole for the locating pin drilled and reamed.  The locating pin will be retained by the screw that holds the cap to the grip.

The pictures show different views of the cap installed, along with screw and pin locations.  I'll make the final pin and screw tomorrow.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #155 - Mar 20th, 2023 at 6:15pm
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Not trying to bore you all with this cap but here are some pictures of the completed and installed cap with the screw.  I'm not going to get into it here but the cap has ended up being part of the equation to hold the stock wood to the frame properly.....this I did not expect!

I think the pictures explain them selves.

Bob
« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2023 at 6:37pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #156 - Mar 20th, 2023 at 6:34pm
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Now, with all the metal parts made and fitted to the stock, the official start to shaping the wood has started.

The first picture is before starting.

I always start the stocking of a gun with rough shaping the profile.  From there the sides are straightened and worked to the thickness of the final shape. Once this is done then the rounding of the sides can be started.  I think everyone knows by now that this final shaping is done by eye and feel, with just reference lines drawn to assist in the shaping.

In this second picture I have the top and bottom of the grip rough out for the profile and the top comb line roughed out.  This roughing takes the shape to with 1/16 inch of the final.  The bottom profile can be seen as a pencil line yet.

Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #157 - Mar 20th, 2023 at 7:43pm
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Bob , you don't have to worry about boring any of us, me especially!  I really enjoy seeing the problem solving that goes on in a build like yours.  Thanks for all the great pictures and explanations.  I also enjoyed the write ups you have done for the Journal.

Regards,
Joe
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #158 - Mar 21st, 2023 at 1:12am
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Bob, 
From experience, one often wonders what people are thinking about a post you do, your words, methods, processes, pictures, etc.  I do a post not really expecting a response but fortunately there is a view count monitor, if I happen to pay attention to it and notice the post is looked at more than a couple times it tells me that someone is at least looking.   It takes a lot of effort to put the posts together - at least for me.  I write down my basic thoughts, type them in Word, edit them, many times a day or two later - quite often they don't make as much sense then so I'll send them to the trash bin and start over...   Don't know if you are there, maybe you are better than that with words.   
I find your posts exceptionally well done and interesting.  If you are willing to put the effort in to these builds AND then do a write up about them, every little piece you make - it's not in vain!   
Many thanks!
Greg
Weather permitting see you this weekend at the show.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #159 - Mar 21st, 2023 at 12:00pm
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Thanks Joe and Greg, at time I do wonder if I’m getting into too much detail and losing folks interest.  But, I keep plugging along hoping it gives other the initiative to go after a project they have been hesitant to  continue or start.   

Greg, it does take work to post these, but I do have the process down and can get it done fairly quickly.

Greg, I plan on being at the show with this build.  If there is room to bring it, there will be an original there to compare my work too.  I may  also bring the Remington #7 so you guys can see the actual gun rather than just pictures.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #160 - Mar 21st, 2023 at 12:04pm
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Back to this build.   

The head on that screw is really bothering me!  Not sure what it is yet but I’m thinking there will be a change in this one or a new one made once I figure out the problem.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #161 - Mar 21st, 2023 at 12:25pm
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I really enjoy following your build posts Bobw. I am not a machinist so it’s out of my realm, but I do admire those with the talent to carve metal, whether it be an artistic machinist or engraver. I enjoy bringing old rusted rifles back to life, as in polishing, filing, rust bluing and all the file work to make a new small part, but machining is a talent of its own! Keep up the great work.
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #162 - Mar 21st, 2023 at 1:57pm
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Bob,
Show and tell with the actuals is great!  I'll be dragging a couple pieces of my junk along. Grin
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #163 - Mar 21st, 2023 at 2:30pm
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I hope Greg and Bob and others who make guns and parts will continue to do so and post their efforts.  I appreciate that it takes a lot of effort but it is the best part of the forum for me!
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #164 - Mar 21st, 2023 at 3:39pm
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I'm with you, Amoretti, these guys always amaze me with their skills being displayed here. I really won't ever do anything like them, but the detailed photos and expanations are ever-enjoyable. I'd love to see the actual creations, but the photos to revisit over time are very enjoyable. And, yes, I'd also like to meet the creators of the amazing projects. Keep it up, fellows!
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #165 - Mar 21st, 2023 at 5:39pm
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The head on that screw is really bothering me!

For what little it's probably worth, it bothers me too, for it seems to overpower the cap.  Too big or maybe just too thick?

In any case, not only could I not have written better comments than Greg did, but his mean so very much, coming as they do from someone who is also supremely talented in the same ways.

In short, keep detailing your great builds for us!

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #166 - Mar 21st, 2023 at 6:54pm
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Bill, too thick is what I have been thinking also and it needs to be flat rather than domed.  Or maybe not domed as much.  I’ll keep looking at it and see what I want….eventually. 
Bob
« Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2023 at 7:29pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #167 - Mar 22nd, 2023 at 12:48pm
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Continuing with the wood.  After finishing the stock profile I went ahead and thinned it down to a bit over a 1/16 inch of the final size at the butt plate on both sides, making it fairly flat all the way to the grip.

The first photo shows this work being done.  In order to do this I usually work with a drawknife, wood plane or very course rasp.  I started with the drawknife but the wood was just too crazy.  So, I went to the wood plane, it work somewhat.  But, ended up using the rasp for most of the work.  It cuts very quickly but take lots of work to push....with frequent breaks!  But even with the breaks it only took 15-20 minutes on each side.  Also note the centering line on the bottom of the stock and the line showing the grip cap placement.

Second photo shows the layout lines for the top of the stock.

Third photo shows the complete roughed out profile which should be  close to the drawing as shown in an earlier post.  The center layout line seen here was incorrect and has now been moved lower at the front and rear.

4, I like to start at the top and front of the grip and start rough shaping it, then moving back, getting the wood shaped behind the grip to the the butt plate.

5. The transition between the rear of the stock and the grip is always the tough part for me.  So, once I get the front and top of the grip sized down, along with the wood to the rear of the grip, I start developing the transition.  In this photo I have just started removing the bulk of the wood to the rear of the grip.  The layout lines are important in order to keep things where I want them as I work.

This might seem pretty straight forward, and it mostly is, but as the wood gets worked down closer to the final shape I will make small changes in order to keep things in the proper perspective..... in my perspective anyway!
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #168 - Mar 22nd, 2023 at 6:39pm
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Progressing on the stock....still a long ways to go though!  What's been done, so far, is just the rough wood removal and, I really don't care for this part of the shaping so I'm glad it's done.  There will be probably 3-4 times, the time spent on this, in the final shaping, which is where I'm at now.  It's hard to see in pictures but the sides, comb and belly are still porky or fat.  I keep these areas over sized so if I make a mistake I have wood available to remove, and helping to correct the mistake.  The nose of the comb is an important feature, in my opinion, so I'll spend some pretty good time on it.  Then there is the grip and shaping around the cap, which will be a challenge in not dinging up the cap too much. 

Picture as the work today progressed.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #169 - Mar 23rd, 2023 at 12:42am
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Could you make, and use, a hard metal piece with the identical outline as the grip cap? I have done a bit of shaping around buttplates, but they aren't as delicate as the form of your grip cap. I like this job- at first I wasn't sure, but it really grew on me.   Smiley
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #170 - Mar 24th, 2023 at 10:57pm
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called...I agree, that's the best solution to saving the cap.   

I knew when I started this project that this gun wouldn't appeal to everyone, after all, it is a strange looking gun.  But, I liked it from the first time I saw it.  And, it does fit into a time when they were trying to figure out something beyond caplock muzzleloaders.  Glad to see it has grown on you.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #171 - Mar 24th, 2023 at 11:10pm
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Bob, about your cap screw, I wonder if that long screw slot affects it's look.  Maybe a dished slot for a Lincoln penny?  Or knurled?  Just cogitating.
Really like your build!

Regards,
Joe
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #172 - Mar 24th, 2023 at 11:17pm
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Got a good start on the forearm today. 

The first picture is with the inletting black pasted on the nose of the frame and back of the barrel, along with the wood to be fitted.  The nose is larger than the the barrel, then there's the ring between the barrel and frame that also need inletting into the forearm.

Photo 2 and 3 are showing it is fully fitted to the barrel and frame.

I'm not ready to start shaping the forearm because it gets a steel tip installed.  Once it is installed then the shaping can be done.

Had some time late today after finishing the forearm, so started thinking about the cap box.  Yup, even though it is a cartridge gun verses the originals as breech loading percussion, I'm still planning to installing one.  Photo 4 is the start of the drawing.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #173 - Mar 24th, 2023 at 11:24pm
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Joe, you are thinking exactly what I have decided to do.   
I will make another, thinner but still with a radius around the edge, and a slot cut just on to inside as a tight radius in order to get some depth with out getting to the edge.

The plan is, and has been from the start, to add a rope pattern to the edge of this screw, the cap edge and the ring between the barrel and the frame.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #174 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 8:50pm
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Bob, I see you live in NW Iowa, not far from Sioux Falls, SD.
Why I say that is because at the gunshow this week in SF I say 2 of these little Sharps on the same table. They were priced between ~$3200 and ~$3500. Hopefully you also were at the show today but it still is on tomorrow. 
BTW nice work for sure Smiley
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #175 - Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:00pm
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LRF, Yes sir.  Both guns were there for my benefit.  Since I’ve been building from measurement from three different guns (these are two of them), I want to see how close I was and Tony was good enough to drag them to the show for me.  I’ll post pictures tomorrow.  There was also an original #7 rolling block on the table.  
Did you have a chance to talk with the guys at the table?  It was Greg and Tony’s table, I loafed around with them most of the day, but was off, for a couple hours, looking the show over.  Had both my Sharps pistol rifle build and the Remington #7 there, the one posted here and also now in the Journal.  Greg also had several of his builds along.  Met moodholler and another gent from Minneapolis (but sorry don’t remember his name now).
Bob
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2023 at 11:18pm by bobw »  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #176 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 12:07pm
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I had measurements from two guys, and three guns, before starting to build this gun.  Two of these guns where brought to the Sioux Falls, SD  gun show this weekend for me to see and compare to my build. Thanks Tony! The original measurements I received did vary, so I used averages and my perspective of what I need for sizing the frame.  The four following picture show the two originals and mine.  The top original in each picture is a late gun near the 300 SN and the lower is an early gun near the 100 SN.  There are some differences in shaping between mine and the originals, but as far as the major dimensions mine seems to run .050 to .070 larger than the original.  After seeing the originals, for the first time, I may make some minor changes in shaping but overall I'm satisfied with what I have.

My gun still needs quite bit of wood removed which will slim it down more to the look of the originals.  But, mine does have more perch belly which, as discussed earlier, I like better than the original.

Of course Tony and Greg thought I should start over! Cheesy

The last photo is the rear site on the later original gun.  It might get  copied for my gun.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #177 - Mar 26th, 2023 at 3:04pm
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So cool!
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Starting to add wood)
Reply #178 - Mar 27th, 2023 at 11:18am
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