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Shoot in casted or weight order (Read 3244 times)

westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #15 - Mar 5^th, 2022 at 11:16pm	Print Post
	Jeff_Schultz wrote on Mar 5^th, 2022 at 11:08pm: uscra112 wrote on Mar 5^th, 2022 at 9:07pm: I've had the experience of culls from weight-sorting shooting a better group than the keepers. Go figure. Yep, me too. Me three.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 3957 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #16 - Mar 6^th, 2022 at 9:47am	Print Post
	For a number of years I weight sorted until I found out the commercial manufacturers declared their bullets to be Match grade if they were within 1% variation in weight. So I tested weight sorted versus those not sorted and had no difference in accuracy. Me four. For a silhouette shooter a 500 grain bullet can have a variation of 5 grains and still be Match grade. However most weight variation is the result of different temperatures of your melt. Once my pot temperature has stabilized I can cast bullets within 1 grain of variation. I leave my melted pot for a half hour before I start casting to ensure the temperature has stabilized. I have a 20 lb pot and only cast the first 10 lb. before refilling the pot. Temperatures can vary if you deplete the pot too much using a propane burner - not sure what happens with electric heaters. For accuracy a flat sharp edged square shoulder of the bullet base is far more important.
	« Last Edit: Mar 6^th, 2022 at 10:02am by Schuetzendave »

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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #17 - Mar 6^th, 2022 at 10:47am	Print Post
	When I started out, I read everything I could and bought into the "you must shoot in the order cast". over the years i have been convinced that isn't necessarily so. However, I can't bear to dump my bullets in a pile, so I line them up on a long board wrapped in 4 or 5 layers of denim. Then I weigh them culling out anything that isn't within .1 of a grain and box them as I go. It's a system I have built up over years so I knnda sorta still shoot them in the order cast, I'm just not Amish about it. 40 Rod


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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Online No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3857 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #18 - Mar 6^th, 2022 at 1:39pm	Print Post
	I know that I'm not a good enough shot to prove it one way or the other. BUT I have a friend who is a gunsmith and who shoots on the Olympic team. His comment is simple (regarding gun modifications) and certainly worth considering in casting bullets. He said: individually each modification is almost impossible to discern the effect, BUT the cumulative effect is quite visible.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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ISS Oldtimer Offline Posts: 570 Joined: Feb 24^th, 2013	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #19 - Mar 6^th, 2022 at 5:04pm	Print Post
	I believe there is a mental aspect to consider. For me, knowing I have taken every step to make the best bullets I can is important. I have no control over range conditions. I do my best to gauge wind and mirage, but it is only an educated guess based on experience. That said, I am going to go with the Pope method. He did pretty good for a lot of years... Rich


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4570mike Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 356 Location: On the Peninsula Joined: Apr 11^th, 2013	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #20 - Mar 6^th, 2022 at 5:32pm	Print Post
	I carefully weigh each one after I do a batch. Less than 400 gr., I keep them +/- 0.5 gr. Over 400 gr., I go +/- 1.0 gr. All others go back in the pot. It's actually surprising how many are nearly identical weight. I tried once to keep outliers for some other purpose, but ended up with a mess of this and that of odd weights. I had thought about doing the "in-order" drill, but knew I'd tip over or spill them somehow and screw that up, so my "in-order" is shot the same calendar year I cast with a Lyman 25 Casting furnace and, for serious shooting, use certified 20:1 alloy. I think that really helps keep things consistent. FWIW, I don't shoot Bench, but do shoot Silhouette out to 500M and generally have very satisfactory results. Mike.


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bnice Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1815 Location: Iowa Joined: Nov 30^th, 2006	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #21 - Mar 6^th, 2022 at 7:10pm	Print Post
	I weigh mine and keep each pour (pot of lead) separate from additional pours. Not sure how people are keeping there bullets in order to shot as cast? I would think it would slow my casting down to the point my wife wouldn't have bullets to shot (or me).


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #22 - Mar 6^th, 2022 at 7:22pm	Print Post
	ISS wrote on Mar 6^th, 2022 at 5:04pm: I believe there is a mental aspect to consider. For me, knowing I have taken every step to make the best bullets I can is important. I have no control over range conditions. I do my best to gauge wind and mirage, but it is only an educated guess based on experience. That said, I am going to go with the Pope method. He did pretty good for a lot of years... Rich I do too. My dad proved it to me many years ago. He and some others he knew taped cow magnets onto the gas line going to the carburetors on their vehicles. Dad swore he got better gas mileage with the magnets. When I asked him how it worked, he told me that the magnets changed the molecular structure of the gasoline as it passed through the magnetic field created by the magnets. I used to enjoy asking him about it because he explained it so well and it seemed to cheer him up. I think a happy driver gets better gas mileage than a pissed off driver.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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hepburnman Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 401 Location: NJ Joined: Mar 22^nd, 2015	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #23 - Mar 7^th, 2022 at 9:32am	Print Post
	Here's an example of my weighing process. These are 40 cal bullets that I cast over a few days and weighed in one session. I group the bullets around a piece of paper where I list the weight-categories and the bullets, in each, vary by +/- 1 grains. I have not culled any of the lighter bullets at this point (I keep all the most heavy bullets too). I think from what I can see (I cast these about a year ago) the bullets range from 425 to 427.9 gr. I did not have a PID when I casted these (there, I said it CASTED)!). After weighing I put the bullets in the styro-foam trays and box them. They go in the heaviest to the lightest order. That RCBS scale was purchased maybe in the 1970 time frame. Has been going strong since. I keep it plugged in but off between sessions. If I plug it in right before a session it will vary somewhat until it warms up so I reweigh the pan empty after a few throws to be sure it is still reading zero.


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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 857 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #24 - Mar 7^th, 2022 at 9:42am	Print Post
	Schuetzendave wrote on Mar 6^th, 2022 at 9:47am: For a number of years I weight sorted until I found out the commercial manufacturers declared their bullets to be Match grade if they were within 1% variation in weight. So I tested weight sorted versus those not sorted and had no difference in accuracy. Me four. For a silhouette shooter a 500 grain bullet can have a variation of 5 grains and still be Match grade. However most weight variation is the result of different temperatures of your melt. Once my pot temperature has stabilized I can cast bullets within 1 grain of variation. I leave my melted pot for a half hour before I start casting to ensure the temperature has stabilized. I have a 20 lb pot and only cast the first 10 lb. before refilling the pot. Temperatures can vary if you deplete the pot too much using a propane burner - not sure what happens with electric heaters. For accuracy a flat sharp edged square shoulder of the bullet base is far more important. Hey Dave, please explain your process on the flat base bullets. I’m thinking a file and a hardened die to hold the bullet base up, adjustable or not? Your bullet bases appear to be milled but I’m hoping a file can do as well.


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10624 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #25 - Mar 7^th, 2022 at 10:11am	Print Post
	Allot of it has to with what provides one with the most self confidence. If one knows his bullets are all match grade. He then knows a bad bullet cannot be blamed for a point lost. Myself I have only shot match grade bullets from the same batch. I never kept any culls or left overs from a batch for foulers or any other use. I also shot them in the order as cast so I also can't state if they really made a difference or possibly not. But I also knew I could never place any blame on a non match grade bullet instead of myself when a bad shot took place. I would be the one at fault and then it was up to me to learn how to correct it as I continued to grow into the breech seating Schuetzen and CBA sports of match shooting.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10624 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #26 - Mar 8^th, 2022 at 11:29am	Print Post
	Those sharp bases do look nice but if the bullet fit is just abit big they will also push /create fins coming off the back of the bullet as Pope has also pointed out. Back when I was allot more serious than I am now I would break those sharp edges using an outside case chamfering tool by hand. If a fin was inadvertently being created it now had a place go and not now hanging off of the base of the bullet that is not conducive to achieving the very best of accuracy.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 857 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #27 - Mar 8^th, 2022 at 3:17pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on Mar 8^th, 2022 at 11:29am: Those sharp bases do look nice but if the bullet fit is just abit big they will also push /create fins coming off the back of the bullet as Pope has also pointed out. Back when I was allot more serious than I am now I would break those sharp edges using an outside case chamfering tool by hand. If a fin was inadvertently being created it now had a place go and not now hanging off of the base of the bullet that is not conducive to achieving the very best of accuracy. John, while not trying to derail this thread I have a question on your post. Does your thoughts apply to bullets in fixed cartridges or just those breach seated?


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10624 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #28 - Mar 8^th, 2022 at 5:23pm	Print Post
	I have never shot fixed with cast bullets so I don't have any personal experience in regards to it.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 857 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: Shoot in casted or weight order Reply #29 - Mar 8^th, 2022 at 6:15pm	Print Post
	Thanks John, maybe a thread at a later time on the best practices for a fixed cartridge.


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