I bought a bullet design program about a year ago and I have found it to be very accurate in calculating mathematical ballistic coefficients and I thought it might help people on this forum to make choices and decisions of what they may want to try.

My main area of interest is spitzers and most of these will be in that area but, not all. 

I will start with the Ideal/Lyman molds that I have and then go on to target molds that I own, as well as bullets out of molds that I have obtained from friends.

Frank

Very nice. What is the program name and where did you purchase? Thanks.

Mike,
All that I can tell you right now is, Lymans # 4, Cast Bullet Manual, lists the 257420 at a BC of .129 and the 319247 at a BC of.208. 

One thing that you have to remember about bullet shapes and BC's is that velocity can make a very big difference. i.e. flat nosed and round nose bullets generally have a higher BC at lower velocities <1200 fps and extremely sharpe points give higher BC's at over 22-2400 fps. 

If you can look on page 98 of the 46th Lyman reloading manual it shows the differances in BC's for different velocitys of the same cast bullets. I believe Sierra give simular info on their jacketed bullets.

I don't know what velocity that the BC's are calulated at in this program but, you can use it to see what happens with the change in bullet shape and make comparisons to other bullets. 

I have two other programs that calulate BC and this one compares well with them. But, only velocity differances over a given distance, as gaged by caliberated chronographs will give the actual BC and you have to factor in air dencity on any given day along with that. 

In the end it is just a tool to be used in designing bullets with the hope of reducing wind drift. BC never won a match all by itself

Frank

Frank- I've tested just about every conceivable spitzer design cast bullet, many times the BC's of the bullet design software do not come close to the actual BC's determined by actual ballistic testing. Most software programs assume that the bullet is stable for its entire travel to the target, this is NEVER the case (The Bullets Flight by FW Mann), therefore the BC's tend to be higher than actual test firing, this is especially true in the case of the 100 and 200 yard ranges fired by schuetzen rifles. For instance the software of your bullet design program is for longer ranges per BPCR shooting. What my ballistic system allows me to do is find the optimum stability velocity for each bullet/rifling twist combination.
Regards-
Barry

Chris- I've noticed the bump/slump also with smokeless powder loads and I suspect that some spitzer designs  may also allow the larger ogive radius noses to have a tendency to slump off center due to rotational acceleration while confined in their travel down the barrel. Remember that BC is only an indicator of a bullets efficiency (time to target) and not an indicator of its consistent accuracy at any given range. Currently I believe a 5r ogive to be about optimum for efficiency and structural strength.  Prior to 1978 spitzers were rarely, if ever, used in ASSRA matches, with all the testing I've done over the past 10 years I still believe a flat nose bullet has an edge in accuracy for calm condition shooting. An accurate, higher BC spitzer has the advantage with its reduced wind drift. The spitzer style bullets became popular after the first Coors Match in 1982 and 200 yard shooting, prior to then most SS matches were at 100 yards. 
Barry

More Ideal/Lymans

Even more

JLouis wrote on Apr 30^th, 2013 at 6:44pm:


So far my program has shown it's self to be very conservative. I talked to Barry and he had results for my borrowed 33 cal Ron Long bullet that was shot in the Modesto match by it's owner. The program predicted a BC of .395 and in actual firing at 200 yards the BC was .44. With another less areodynamic bullet my program predicted a BC of .282 and that bullets actual 200 yard BC was .32 and change. So, it maybe inaccurate but, in the direction at I preffer

Frank

Three more molds.

Well, it's been almost a year since I last posted bullet designs I've bought a few molds since then so I though I'd post a few more designs.

First up is a Paul Jones mold that I just got, it was made for German Schuetzens. It casts .3165 in 22/1 but, this program rounds up so, it calls it a .317 dia. Since it is cylindrical, I assume it was ment to be shot from a case but, I'll BS it.

If there are any other PJ molds out there simular to this one, please contact me.

The next two are 30 cals, the NEI I've used BSed in my 32/35 and my wifes 32/20 it shoots just about as well as my Ron Long molds but the BC is a bit less.

I haven't shot the 311365 yet but, I'll try it in a 30/40 and '06 and then when I get my RKS mounted on my Hoch.

Frank
 
PS
I've added my new 319201 to this post.

PSS
I believe my mold had the cherry droped in .025 short. I added to the base band until I got the advertized 184 gr bullet so, I've mark that drawing as "original".

Four more. The first one is my 3rd Ron Long 30 cal bullet, The one that the wife has been shooting in her 32/20.

Glad you keep posting these Frank.  I've been so busy I've neglected the learning curve.  Your drawings keep reminding me.   

I'd like to do what you are doing, though I've not the vintage molds you have.  Still hope to draw what I do have one of these days.   What I really need to do though is get started on a mold I want to order from Tom at Accurate.   After I get the kinks worked out of a couple Ballards and enough reloaded for a couple summer time shoots I hope the get out in front of that one.   Was really hoping to do the drawing before I order, if for nothing else to learn the program and say I did it.   

Time keeps slipping...

A Tribute to Paul Jones.

The .3165 & 1.17 lg, .32 molds are mine. The 25 and 1.29 lg, 32 cal bullets are ones that Dave Patterson gave me. Thank you, Dave.

If anyone has a PJ 30 cal bullet that they could send me, I would like to add it to this collection.

Frank

Wayne,
In general, the longer base bands are a feature used for BSing. It allows more adjustabilty in setting the BSer for best accuracy, as well as adding strenght to the base band to prevent collapsing the band, into the groove at ignition. They are also, in general, about .001 larger in diameter than the nominal groove diameter, to ensure a good seal of the barrel and prevent gas cutting.

Personally, I think that a bullet made for BSing should have a minimum, base band lenght of about .3 of the groove diameter but, as long as the base band seals the barrel and prevents gas cutting, it's fine. The long base band just makes it a little easier to do.

My PJ .3165 diameter bullet was made for shooting fixed, Tommy Mason has one that looks just like it but, has the wider base band, because he order his for BSing.

As yet, I haven't be able to shoot mine because my groove is .315 and it won't fit in my BSer w/o sizing and I haven't got around to making a sizer. If I have any trouble with it, I can always lenghten the base band.

Frank

Next pages:

Page 18 is blank, more:

I was asked to check out a Pioneer mold so, I drew it up, too.

The next two are a Modern Bond mold that I have. Both bullets are cut in the same block and are from the same cherry just one is shorter. The second set of MB mold numbers are the designed length but, for what ever reason, it didn't come out that way. Shrinkage would allow for .005 but, they are .015 short.

Frank

Froggie sent me these two 33 cal bullets, the 338237 & 89. 

I resently got the Bo Clerke 33 cal mold.

Frank

Our forum member, Fritz send me this Paul Jones catalog to post for everyone. Thank you, very much, Fritz.

I'm also adding Bill Smith mold a excellent New York mold maker, that's not with us any longer.

Frank

As promiced. The Brooks and Darr bullets. 

I now own the Brooks mold and will modify it as shown in the second drawing, before I use it. I think one of the important features of this Mos and Mos copys, is the shallow grooves, it adds strength to the bullets body.

The last drawing is with the groove depth of JerryH's mold.

Frank

A year or more ago.i bought a Andela mold, off Ebay. I hadn't heard of him but, he made every nice molds, out of 11L14. 

Last weekend, I found a 17th edition (1997) of Gun Digest and while looking through it I found a ad for Andela molds. I was supprized at how many molds he made, there must be quite a few out there.

Mine is electric pin marked and the poor picture, reads .309 x 301E

Here is the info in the Gun Digest, I think it may help others identify his molds, when they are found.

Frank

Here is some great H&G info and info on shrinkage for different alloys.

Frank

Tom. I don't have a Grope transonic mold but. I'm familar with the shape of the nose. I dont believe my program will draw that shape..

Frank

My NOE copy of the 311284 casts 220gr out of old (real old) WW.  The NOE mould I have is a multi-cavity with both GC and PB versions.  I am shooting the PB from my Shiloh Sharps M74 in 30-40 Krag at about 1500 fps using 4198 and Garbe's Hi-temp lube mix.  About MOA at 100 for a dozen or so 5-shot groups with my Unertl 20X scope.

Does anybody have any info on a Paul Jones 45020? 

Thanks

Dellet wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2024 at 8:46am:


Thanks