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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens Bisley Model (martini action) (Read 43079 times)
Ken
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #15 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 8:55am
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Thanks for every ones help. 
Just ordered Grants book
Target rifles are not my main interest, if I wanted to sell this gun is it best to send it to a well advertised auction house that specializes in firearms or does someone have a better idea?  The problem I see with selling a gun like this is that there are not enough data points to establish a fair value or am I missing something
  
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moshannon
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #16 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 10:39am
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You might actually want to try to get in touch with some of bigger collector/dealers of single shots. Gary Quinlan from near Philadelphia and Goergens Gun Shop in Austin, Minn. come to mind. They could definitly help with price points if they have seen others around at the large shows, although they will also want to have a very accurate description of the condition.
  

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mdeland
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #17 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 2:15pm
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  I have two of the Australian cadets and this action looks a good bit bigger and of different profile to me. Neither of mine have a breech block pin as shown in the picture as the innards come out the bottom in a unit.
I have a set of target sights on it that fit the Martini cadet action that are made by Parker-Hale. They look very similar to the ones in the photo. It has micrometer adjustment base with a selectable aperture disk. The selectable disk has six aperture settings. 
Not knowing much about Martini's in general I wonder if this is a full size action or perhaps a mid size if one was ever made. 
The finger lever is the wrong shape for a cadet as well it seems to me. MD
  
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k0wtz
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #18 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 2:55pm
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shoot and i was going to offer 200.00 in cash now just kidding.  what a find its amazing.

why dont we have a stevens thread so i can find out about my stevens tip-up.  the only way i will be able to figure it out is to send it to david kaiser in ia.

been spending too much on my martini collection as of late after i got over the r/r benchrest rifle plague.

keep gtoing  and thanks i can compete in this game but its interesting.

bob
  
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tjshooter
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #19 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 3:00pm
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Hello all my first post. I may be able to add some information here. Firstly the brass sight element holder would more likely be marked Parker Hale containing elements for the  foresight, the rear aperture sight looks like a Parker Hale mod 7A. The action is not a Francotte type and looks to be a converted Military large frame hence the description posted that it was eligable for Military Miniature matches or a pre Francotte made action this in itself would be unusual Certainly something different but the sights are much later than the action and  changed sometime after manufacture. My little thoughts any more information out there?  TJ.
  
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38_Cal
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #20 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 3:13pm
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I'm no expert by any stretch, but I know that there were multiple sizes of both "standard" actions and Francotte actions, that carried the breechblock, extractor and lever on a sub-frame...what I call the "works in a drawer" design.  Just scaling from the rear sight, this appears to be one of the medium standard actions, shaped similarly to the Mk IV or Francotte designs.   

David Kaiser
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David Kaiser
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #21 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 4:09pm
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Chances are it was either not banned, or if it was banned it was for some weight limitation for the class it was designed for. Sounds better if they said it was "too accurate" though! Smiley
Welcome Ken!
  

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Fred Boulton
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #22 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 4:46pm
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Converted military actions were an "entry level" target rifle around 1900 /1910. Greener sold them at a slightly lower price than his "Military Miniature" which had the small Francotte type action--probably sourced from BSA. We have several of the conversions in our club, some of which retain the full military appearance and some looking like the "Stevens" rifle referred to above.
The "Stevens" rifle was probably made in Birmingham in my opinion.
I never heard of any rifle being banned for being too accurate. Progress in accuracy always resulted in a line of prospective purchasers waving money.
Fred.
  
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DoubleD
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #23 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 9:26pm
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I see no BSA connection to this rifle.

The Action is not BSA-Francotte.  It may be a heavily reworked military action, but I doubt. It is a Martini action and not a Francotte.  I don't believe Stevens made that action.  This type action was available to the trade in the late 1800's and early 1900's and it was a common practice used by any number of English gun makers to use them to make custom rifles.

This rifle could have been mine several years ago for a song.  Ken, for you I am glad you couldn't find it that day. For me I have got some good mileage out of the M 12 and M1215 I did leave with.
  

Douglas, Ret.
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slumlord44
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #24 - Aug 29th, 2009 at 10:49pm
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If you decide to sell it and come up with an asking price, I would ask  that you post it here in the for sale section and give us here a shot at buying it. I , for one am intertsted in it, if there is any way possible that I could afford it. This is a gun that I would not mind overextending myself on if it is anywhere in the realm of reason.
  
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tjshooter
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #25 - Sep 1st, 2009 at 4:03pm
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Giving some thought to the Proof marks shown and I am not an expert in this area. They are Birmingham proof marks for a UK made item as against imported and proofed here. And I would say that marked LR  and Nitro  proofed for something that early would not be right all marks I have seen  and on rifles of that age I own are just L sometimes with the  addition of.610" for case length. the LR was much later so could be a replaced barrel. particularly as the text posted  from a catalogue mentions Part Oct/Round. I think that this has with the sights been upgraded to some degree. ammo.  TJ.
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #26 - Sep 2nd, 2009 at 1:52am
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I think it is unlikely that the barrel is a replacement, it's hardly likely that anyone would go to the trouble of having a roll die made to replicate the original 'factory' markings.

It's more likely perhaps that a round barrel was standard, as they are size for size cheaper to produce than octagonal or half and half designs. The small bore target rifle market in Britain in the early 1900's was a very competative business and anything that reduced the cost of producing the rifle without effecting its accuracy would be siezed upon by the manufacturer.

I think we have all seen firearms advertised in advance of production that differed somewhat from the original description when it was marketed. Its happened to me.  Cry

The .22 Long Rifle cartridge was well established by the time this rifle was advertised, the advert stated that it was being chambered for a specific .22" LR round by a named manufacturer.  The .22" Long Rifle cartridge was developed by Stevens in 1887 by taking the case from the .22" Long cartridge and fitting the 40 grain bullet from the .22 Extra long cartridge.

Small Bore rifle shooting was really at it's zenith around the end of the first decade of the 20th.C. in Britain and there was a lucrative market for rifle sales. Stevens can't be blamed for wanting to cash in on such a market. Stevens problem was 'how to do it'

The most economical way would be to have the rifle made in Britain in it's entirety.  Get a manufacturer to build the rifles on an existing action, or surplus actions from a production over-run using sights and sight insert holders that were already in mass production and therefore cheaper than any new design.

The clue's are tantalising, almost certainly a Birmingham Gunmaker, but who? BSA, probably, but Webley or Greener are possibilities. Matching the action to one known to be made or imported by one of the Birmingham Gun Makers would be a good starting point.

Harry
« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2009 at 7:40am by »  
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tjshooter
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #27 - Sep 2nd, 2009 at 4:44pm
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Harry  All you say is of course true however the sight holder and sights are 1930's. I would still like to know more of the proof marks I am aware that LR was in use but still the proof marks pre WW1 were as  I mentioned above and of course Nitro Proof was not compulsory until the 1920's. An interseting puzzle all around. I wish I had looked closer at the Part Oct/round barreled Stevens I briefly saw a while ago.   TJ.
  
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fallingblock
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #28 - Sep 2nd, 2009 at 5:20pm
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As far as the action it looks like any of the small Martini actions used by many of the English makers for the small martini Rook rifles. My guess is that they were made in Belgium and finished in England. Westley Richards made quite a few for the New South Wales  Public Schools. 
Cheers,
Laurie
  

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Laurie
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Ken
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Re: Stevens Bisley Model (martini action)
Reply #29 - Sep 2nd, 2009 at 5:22pm
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When did Stevens discontinue the barrel marking  "J Stevens Arms and Tool Co" ?
  
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