JD,
Most European countries have their own Proof Houses but they don't all have a common standard. The British Proof house will only accept the Italian and Belgian Proofing as a standard equivalent to theirs.

I am not aware of any of the faulty Sako's being tested in British Proof Houses. I don't even know to which country that batch was dispatched, all I heard was that there was a very rapid facotry recall  after several barrels blew up on firing.

Froggy. 
The side panelled Borchardt are the weakest of all the Borchardt range, the front edge of the panel leaves very little metal behind the breech block buttresses and that's where it is most likely to giveway.

I've attached a picture of a Military Borchardt converted by Al Sledge, note that he cut the side panels deliberately shorter for that very reason, and this action was to be used with BP only.

Harry

MartiniBelgian wrote on Jan 27^th, 2007 at 3:28am:


Hello Gert,

Ooops, somebody sneaked that in when I wasn't looking. My apologies to all. I do note however, that our US friends are not listed in the International Proof Commission List. Presumably because they don't have a Proof House.

It is interesting to note that the Birmingham, England, Proof House will test handloaded ammunition in modern test barrels and supply velocity and more importantly the pressure resulting. I presume that only applies to current factory produced calibres? I canot seen any proof house having a test barrel for every obsolete or wildcat round ever made.

It would appear that there is opening in the US for some enterprising person to open a business doing some form of proof testing, if only for the proof testing of modified, home or gunsmith built rifles. It would certainly inspire some confidence in other shooters when someone turns up at the range with a .577 Tyranosaurus built on Stevens 'Crackshot' action, to know that it had passed some standard form of proof testing.

Joking aside, I'm still of the opinion that old BP actions should only be modified or altered to take other BP cartridges. Pushing old actions too, or beyond their limits is always, IMO, rather risky.

Harry

Harry, 
didnt Britain convert a bunch of old martini 577/450 martini's to 303?

For use in Australia.

I installed a barrel in one for my dad about ten years ago. It had a bushed firing pin and seemed to be no worse for wear.

Woudnt those converted rifles require a reproof?   Either way, the proof houses 
or Great Britain seems to be at odds with your opinion.  

What kind and grade of wood are you planning on using on your Borchardt?                                                            Joe.

Harry,
I must admit, trying to pin you down on this subject is harder than catching a greased pig!  
Your points are well taken.
I do find it interesting, that of all the failed actions in my neck of the woods, were chambered for black powder era rounds.
The Borchardt action Frogman mentioned is the only high power single shot I've heard of failing.  I'm sure there are more. 
I think if you dont make any more references to our beloved Crackshot Rifle's we could dig out some affordable wood.  
                                                                                      Joe.

westerner wrote on Jan 28^th, 2007 at 7:17pm:


Hello Joe,

I am admittedly, a little more than pedantic when it comes to making perfectly good BP actions into potential hand grenades by converting them to take cartridges that didn't exist until years or even decades later, and which operate at much higher pressures than any round that the action was originally designed to accomodate.

The reports of actions coming violently apart are few, but there are possibly more than are actually reported. Few people would like to admit they made an error and suffer public embarrassement.

How many of those BP actions that gave way in your neck of the woods were publicised? Your use of the word 'All' indicates that there were several.

Blow ups are not restricted to just firearms, they happen to many manufactured things. We have all watched for example racing car engines blow up in races when pushed beyond their limit, aircraft both militay and civil, occasionally suffer metal fatigue and come apart. These examples illustrate that man is not infallable when designing mechanical objects.

Much as I love the Borchardt action, I don't think it can be describes as a High Power single shot action. I was as strong it needed to be for the large BP cartridges of the 1870's-1880's but not IMO for the high pressure white powder rounds of later decades.

I meant no offence to Crackshot Rifles or their owners, I cut my teeth on one of those over half a century ago. A very nice boys 'plinking' rifle, yet another action that shouldn't be considered for converting to any other calibre than it was originally made for. 

The original starter for this thread asked if a 9.3 x 74mm round was suitable to be used in an original Borchardt. IMO is isn't, hence my original reply. I haven't changed my mind. However, as the Bard once said. "Opinions are like A**holes, everbody has one". 

Harry



 
                                                                                     

What Vigillinus said, and plenty of it.
JMO, Joe

Now it occurs to me to wonder exactly why I, JKS and AKJ are sitting at our computers on a Saturday fooling around with our favorite BS subject instead of being out shooting !!!!

Let me add to AKJ's remark that I have two Luft Borchardts that, I am sorry to say, I have never fired.  One is in .280 Remington, stocked by them, and, to quote AKJ, it is a "work of art".  Purchased at a Rock Island auction several years ago together with a Luft Stevens 44 1/2 in .222 Remington, also a remarkable rifle.  The other Sharps has their metalwork, Hobaugh long barrel in .45-120-550, paneled action, original long range sights spirit level and all, stocks by Hubalek in prone smallbore style, Iver Henricksen blued it.  All made for me in 1967, Elmer Keith suggested them to me.  Good advice. And a 52 semi sporter .22 worked over by them.   They were immensely talented and are not nearly as well known as they should be.

Harry that is how I feel about low number 103 Springfields.  But there are quite a number of people of what seem to be reasonable intelligence, who shoot them quite cheerfully.