Everything you want to know about the 577-450.

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GS

The brass is available but EXPENSIVE!  I think that Bertrums makes it (look up Huntington's on the web) and I'm pretty sure that Rocky Mountain Cartridge makes it as well.  Bertrum is conventional brass.  RMC is machined.

Several sources have dies.  These aren't cheap!  I think that Lee has just added this caliber but in a unique thread size meaning that you'd need to get a unique press.

The larger RCBS presses, the Rock Chucker and Rock Chucker Supreme have a top insert.  With that in place they handle conventional 7/8x14 threaded dies.  With that removed they handle a different, larger diameter die.  You'd need to call them to get details because, if memory serves, RCBS actually has three diameter/thread size combinations.

The powder charge I don't remember but as with any blackpowder cartridge the charge should completely fill the case.  Actually seating the bullet should just slightly compress the blackpowder charge.

For decades conventional wisdom was that blackpowder charger in blackpowder cartridges should completely fill the case.  If they didn't, the theory goes, if there is an air gap you ran the risk of a detonation with MUCH high pressures.

Now this idea has been called into question.  So, well, the bottom line seems to be that if the case is full you aren't going to get into any serious trouble.  If the case isn't full maybe you'll be ok or maybe you'll blow you gun up and kill yourself.  The reason for taking this risk escapes me.

Never shot mine enough to know if the gun was accurate but they certainly are fun.

Wasn't this basic rifle also chambered in 303?

You could try the martini Henry Website:

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They have details of the original cartridges and sectioned diagrams to show how they were loaded.

The Martini Enfield was the same action in .303 with an Enfield rifled barrel.

Regards,

Pete Luton
Marylebone Rifle & Pistol Club
England

My last 577-450 came with a box of ammo made from 24-ga brass shotgun cases and sold by Dangerous Dave, the Old Western Scrounger. It'll really wake you up when you pull the trigger.
Good luck, Joe

I had a booth at Friendship In for a couple or three years, several years ago. The owner of "Pecotonic"(sp?) stopped by and stayed awhile while three or four of us discussed the 577-450 Martini. Apparently, the regiment that was at "Bork's Rift" had commissioned Pecotonic to build a new Martini rifle exactly like the rifles used at Bork's Rift. One rifle for each soldier that was in the battle. There were no surviving rifles of the exact type known. The order was nearly finished and I guess the British Regiment was quite satisfied. The contract specified that ONLY the exact number be produced and then the tooling was mandated destroyed.

The interesting part of the discussion was that one of my friends was present, and he mentioned that the original rifles would not shoot accurately at long range (800-1000 yards). They apparently did quite well up to 300 meters but did not perform well against a good 45/70. Pecotonic admitted that they had seen the exact same problem when they used the first rifles in tests (barrel specs as well as EVERYTHING else was "AS ORIGINAL"). Pecotonic mentioned the concerns to the British and they stated that was normal. 

I am only reporting what I personally heard and do not need any flames on this . However, I found that quite interesting. Of course, a rifle of the period that shoots well up to 300 meters certainly will do all that it is called to do in battles of the time.

FWIW
Dale53

Pete;
Thanks for the reply.

Dale53

I didn`t hang onto my original .577-450 sporting rifle long enough to get the best out of it. However it was fun in Smokeless or BP. At 8lb you knew when you touched her off... Bertram cases were good, tho expensive. Infact some Aussie shooters were having them imported as it was cheaper than they could buy them here... I also had NFDS cases [think spelling right] from the UK which most of the competition guys were using here. They were much cheaper cases and people liked them. Not sure if they are still available.

Am thinking "Bork's Rift" may well be "Rorks Drift" in Natal A monumental battle with the most number of VC's awarded in the British army at any one time...

martini B - I don`t know much about the .500-450 ?

cheers,

Cam...

There is a fellow at NSSA, Greg Edington, who has spent quite a bit of effort trying to replica Civil War Williams bullets.  I think that these were quite popular in the latter part of the war in part because they cleaned the fouling out of the barrels.  Anyway a straight copy isn't apparently allowed under NSSA shooting rules (I think) so Greg has been trying to come up with an equivalent that is.

When he gets an idea he has Lee make a mould.  Only works if he can drum up enought interest but this happens occasionally.  I've got two of his rather oddly shaped bullet moulds.

Greg has also written two or three articles for the NSSA on the history of these bullets and why or how they are suppose to work.

Alas I became aware of this after selling most of my rifles that might benefit from this bullet design work.  BUT if you are having accuracy problems with an old blackpowder rifle, you might want to look Greg up and talk to him.  I couldn't possibly summarizes his work.

BUT I am really impressed with the amount of work he has done and the results he has gotten.

If I find that his moulds work well, I'd just go the cost of having Ballisti-Cast copy it and have a gang mould made.

Ballisti-Cast are the ones now making Hensley & Gibbs moulds.  They also will do some custom work.  VERY nice work!

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Wayne Gibbs wanted there to be NO confusion between H&G and Ballisti-Cast moulds so two things were changed, the numbers identifying a mould and the way the moulds were serial numbered.

Ballisti-Cast moulds have an identification number that is 600 higher than there H&G counterparts.  So H&G bullet #22 became Ballisti-Cast mould #622.

Ballisti-Cast does not list all their moulds on their web site.  And they have expanded the line.  Also they will make custom orders.  That cost $100 extra.  Finally they have discontinued the eight and ten cavity blocks.

I've got several Ballisti-Cast moulds.  They are every bit as good as H&G's.

If you want something I'd suggest calling and asking for, I think, Peter, the owner.

If anyone has a .577-450 or 450 #2 Musket or similar cartridge in a single shot like  a Martini or a double (with hammers), that they would be willing to sell, please feel free to contact me at brentd@iastate.edu.

I may be a bit tardy in reply.  I'm about to step on to a plane and destination email availability is a bit spotty or worse for the coming week.

Thanks,
Brent