I have a Hoch action, custom single shot falling block Schuetzen target rifle from the 1980's. Local gunsmith did a chamber cast and could find no reference for the bullet, therefore, I have what is likely a wildcat round. The brass is one and 1/2 inch in length. It is necked down 1/2 inch. The bullet diameter is .312. Also, the action is set up for the bullet to be breech seated. Gunsmith advised that the parent case is 30-30 brass. The gun was sold to me as a 32-40, which was way too long and incorrect. A 32-20 pistol round will drop into the chamber and appears to be a close fit, except it is about 1/4 inch too short. This gun appears to be put together very well, by someone who knew what they were doing. I have basic reloading experience, 45 long colt, 45 acp and .357. I would love to shoot this gun, but I need some guidance as to how to form some brass or who I could send the gun to that could get it done.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Dennis

It sound like it may be some kind of a version of the 30 Herret.

Have you slugged the barrel for groove diameter? You should also try to get the twist rate so, you'll know what length bullet you can shoot in it.

I wonder if it might be a 30 Schwartz?   

This from Shooters forum some years ago...

        Chamber cast:
Neck dia .331
"shoulder" dia..335
Base dia..412
chamber length 1.8"

Did you happen to buy this on gunbroker last spring?
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There was a Hoch rifle that sold then and was advertised as a 30 Swartz.

There are two different 30 Swartz cartridges, one based on the 357 Maximum case, the other on either the 30-30 or 32-40 case. Dimensions for those are in the back of “The Modern Schuetzen Rifle” book. Both are longer than 1.600”. Both used a .308 bullet. Both are basically a straight taper from base to neck. No none tapers .200” line at the base. 32-40 dies cut off to the appropriate base diameter work well to form the cases. 

There is also a 30-160 Hoch cartridge that I have seen mentioned, in the same book, I think there’s was a photo, but no dimensions.

Maybe that ring size some bells for others that were shooting at that time.

Edit to add.

Looking at list of cartridges in “The Modern Schuetzen Rifle”, there are a number of cartridges that are close. A good chamber cast is in order.
Looking at some dimensions a 7mm Brewer is a 1.54” case based on the 30-30, Charlie Dell’s 333 KR was 1.5” long. Either of those necked up or down to 30 caliber are possibilities. Even an 8.15 X 46R is close.

At the time that rifle was made, a lot of people were experimenting with 30 caliber cartridges. Without a marking, you may never know for certain. Forming some brass for it when you have an actual set of measurements shouldn’t be too hard.

Found this looking around
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Seems to have been a popular chambering

When you put the Herrett in the chamber, how much sticks out?

I wouldn't say you got ripped off by it being 30 cal. 30 calibers can shoot just as well as 32 calibers. 

If it has the same 30° shoulder, as the Herrett, you will be able to make brass, by shortening a Herrett die set.

see attached image of 30 Herrett next to the chamber cast

Looks like someone cut 3/4” off a 30-30 case, did the same to a die and went to town.

You could try a 30-30 trim die, might be short enough. I don’t see a big challenge to get a case close enough to fire form to the chamber.

Worst case. There are a number of other cartridges that would be suitable for a rechamber. 

Length to shoulder and diameter at shoulder would be real helpful.

Neck length wouldn’t hurt, and making sure the casting extends into the rifle so you know you have it all.

Is this the rifle for sale on Gunbroker listed as 30-30 1 1/2”

Nice looking rifle, worth the effort to get it shooting.

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rkba2nd wrote on Aug 24^th, 2024 at 12:15am:

Posts 10&11 next to a 30 Herriot. Cropped photo below.


I have a barrel in both the 30-30 based cartridge and the 357 Max. The 357 Max is almost indistinguishable from a 30-30 Wesson. 

Sorry frnkeore and Dellet, to my failing eyes the chamber cast looked like nickel plated brass. It is certainly not a 30 Schwartz based on a 30-30 case.

Bigbore6969 wrote on Aug 24^th, 2024 at 2:45pm:

Loosely based on a photo of the cast. That might work.

Knowing the diameter at the transition to the shoulder would help answer that question. You want to compare the top half of a 30-30 to your casting.

Here’s a 30-30 case measurements, most loading manuals would have the same info.

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Just asking; is there any reason not to run a 30 Herrett reamer and move forward?

If you can at least get three fire formed cases   Hornady will build a custom set of forming dies for $100 per die...FL,seating,flare die,whatever.  In Making the 32-357 case AKA A modern 32 Ideal. I cut off a Lee 32-40 die ,used A die from the reamer,etc. What a pain. But will now have a set of forming dies in the next couple months.  Thats the game playing with a wildcat cartridge......

Lee will make a custom set of dies.  You need 5 fired cases, 3 sample projectiles, a $250 setup fee, and $59 for a 3 die set or $26 for the sizing die only.  They’ll wave the setup fee if you order 25 sets.

I’ve had them make custom dies for wildcat calibers and the dies are good quality.  It’s a little easier on the wallet if you can convince 25 friends that they also need to adopt the same caliber. 

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Dale, this is the companion rifle to the gun sold on Gunbroker back in August. Obviously owned and built by the same person. I now believe it is a 30-30 x 1 1/2. Is it possible to order a die set from a custom wild cat die maker or is this something I will need to put together myself.

Regards,

Dennis

Hornady will also make hydraulic forming dies which I found long ago is well worth the cost, saving components and wear on your barrel. In particular if you are forming wildcat cases to be used for  varmint shooting, as you generally need many, many cases. For use in schuetzen the number necessary is minimal which makes the process much simpler, as you can generally cobble the number needed together with oddball dies on hand or easily obtainable. It has been ten or so years since having Hornady make the hydraulic  forming dies, delivery time and current cost you can surely find online.

wader4, does the image I posted of my chamber cast look like a match to your Hoch .30 Schwartz? If it does look like a match, what die did you use to form your brass? The OAL of my chamber cast is 1.5 inches for the case. It is necked down about 1/2 inch and is .30 caliber. My Hoch was auctioned at RIA the same day that your gun was sold at RIA and I am sure it came from the same consigner. I have gone around the world trying to figure out the caliber as I would love to shoot this gun. If you think that my gun is a .30 Schwartz, I would greatly appreciate the opportunity to buy a piece of brass from you to verify my gun's caliber. 

Best regards

P.S. If it sounds like I am desperate, I am. Been looking at that gun for over a year.

A photo of my chamber casting, a fire formed case, and a .338 30-30 1 1/2

The Schwartz is a different beast all together. I did use the dies to help make my cartridge, along with many others.

Bigbore6969, if the overall length of your case is 1 1/2 inches, I might be able to neck down one of my .338 30-30’s to make it fit. 

I hope this isn't a dumb question and maybe I have missed it somewhere but were either of the rifles marked for caliber? Just asking...



JMH

Bigbore6969 I sent you a PM.