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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat (Read 2906 times)
Bigbore6969
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Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Aug 22nd, 2024 at 1:21pm
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I have a Hoch action, custom single shot falling block Schuetzen target rifle from the 1980's. Local gunsmith did a chamber cast and could find no reference for the bullet, therefore, I have what is likely a wildcat round. The brass is one and 1/2 inch in length. It is necked down 1/2 inch. The bullet diameter is .312. Also, the action is set up for the bullet to be breech seated. Gunsmith advised that the parent case is 30-30 brass. The gun was sold to me as a 32-40, which was way too long and incorrect. A 32-20 pistol round will drop into the chamber and appears to be a close fit, except it is about 1/4 inch too short. This gun appears to be put together very well, by someone who knew what they were doing. I have basic reloading experience, 45 long colt, 45 acp and .357. I would love to shoot this gun, but I need some guidance as to how to form some brass or who I could send the gun to that could get it done.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Dennis
  
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rkba2nd
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #1 - Aug 22nd, 2024 at 2:22pm
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To be sure of the chambering it would be best to make a chamber cast, and go forward from there. Perhaps your gunsmith can and should be able to do that for you.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #2 - Aug 22nd, 2024 at 2:40pm
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It sound like it may be some kind of a version of the 30 Herret.

Have you slugged the barrel for groove diameter? You should also try to get the twist rate so, you'll know what length bullet you can shoot in it.
  

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frnkeore
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #3 - Aug 22nd, 2024 at 2:51pm
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Here is a drawing of the 30 Herrett and another, very old 30, called the 30/78
  

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jfeldman
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #4 - Aug 22nd, 2024 at 3:34pm
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I wonder if it might be a 30 Schwartz?   

This from Shooters forum some years ago...

        Chamber cast:
Neck dia .331
"shoulder" dia..335
Base dia..412
chamber length 1.8"
  
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Dales
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #5 - Aug 22nd, 2024 at 10:58pm
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Sounds close to32-30 Remington 
Dale
  
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Dellet
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #6 - Aug 22nd, 2024 at 11:22pm
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Did you happen to buy this on gunbroker last spring?
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There was a Hoch rifle that sold then and was advertised as a 30 Swartz.

There are two different 30 Swartz cartridges, one based on the 357 Maximum case, the other on either the 30-30 or 32-40 case. Dimensions for those are in the back of “The Modern Schuetzen Rifle” book. Both are longer than 1.600”. Both used a .308 bullet. Both are basically a straight taper from base to neck. No none tapers .200” line at the base. 32-40 dies cut off to the appropriate base diameter work well to form the cases. 

There is also a 30-160 Hoch cartridge that I have seen mentioned, in the same book, I think there’s was a photo, but no dimensions.

Maybe that ring size some bells for others that were shooting at that time.

Edit to add.

Looking at list of cartridges in “The Modern Schuetzen Rifle”, there are a number of cartridges that are close. A good chamber cast is in order.
Looking at some dimensions a 7mm Brewer is a 1.54” case based on the 30-30, Charlie Dell’s 333 KR was 1.5” long. Either of those necked up or down to 30 caliber are possibilities. Even an 8.15 X 46R is close.

At the time that rifle was made, a lot of people were experimenting with 30 caliber cartridges. Without a marking, you may never know for certain. Forming some brass for it when you have an actual set of measurements shouldn’t be too hard.

Found this looking around
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Seems to have been a popular chambering
« Last Edit: Aug 23rd, 2024 at 3:03am by Dellet »  
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Bigbore6969
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #7 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 11:45am
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The gun was sold at the RIA on 6/23/23, lot # 1209. The listing advised that the rifle was a 32-40. I am sure the consignor did that so the gun would sell. My bad luck to be the one that got burned. Another local gunsmith thought based on the measurements of the chamber cast, that it is a .30 Herrett. I got a dummy .30 Herrett and it is a no go. The .30 Herrett is just slightly longer, however, the Herrett is necked down about 1/4 where it needs to be necked down about 1/2 inch. I will send images when I can figure out how to downsize the images for this site.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #8 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 11:59am
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When you put the Herrett in the chamber, how much sticks out?

I wouldn't say you got ripped off by it being 30 cal. 30 calibers can shoot just as well as 32 calibers. 

If it has the same 30° shoulder, as the Herrett, you will be able to make brass, by shortening a Herrett die set.
  

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Dellet
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #9 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 12:22pm
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Bigbore6969 wrote on Aug 23rd, 2024 at 11:45am:
The gun was sold at the RIA on 6/23/23, lot # 1209. The listing advised that the rifle was a 32-40. I am sure the consignor did that so the gun would sell. My bad luck to be the one that got burned. Another local gunsmith thought based on the measurements of the chamber cast, that it is a .30 Herrett. I got a dummy .30 Herrett and it is a no go. The .30 Herrett is just slightly longer, however, the Herrett is necked down about 1/4 where it needs to be necked down about 1/2 inch. I will send images when I can figure out how to downsize the images for this site.


Is the cartridge a bottle neck, or is it a straight taper to the neck?

An easy way to down size the photos might be to simply email them to yourself, many email programs will allow tou to down size the file for ease of sending.
  
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Bigbore6969
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #10 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 1:14pm
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see attached image of 30 Herrett next to the chamber cast
  
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jfeldman
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #11 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 1:18pm
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resize
  
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Dellet
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #12 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 1:43pm
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Looks like someone cut 3/4” off a 30-30 case, did the same to a die and went to town.

You could try a 30-30 trim die, might be short enough. I don’t see a big challenge to get a case close enough to fire form to the chamber.

Worst case. There are a number of other cartridges that would be suitable for a rechamber. 

Length to shoulder and diameter at shoulder would be real helpful.

Neck length wouldn’t hurt, and making sure the casting extends into the rifle so you know you have it all.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #13 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 2:15pm
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It does look like a shortened 30/30 and by the chamber cast, it looks like, after the reamer was run in short, that they relieved the rear of it, for the solid head.

Try a 30/30 in the chamber, if it fits, mark it and start by shortening a 30/30 die to about that length but, leave it a little long.

Cut it with a friction cut off saw. Do you have a lathe?
  

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Re: Help with forming brass for a 30 caliber Wildcat
Reply #14 - Aug 23rd, 2024 at 6:35pm
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Is this the rifle for sale on Gunbroker listed as 30-30 1 1/2”
  
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