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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Question about W. Milton Farrow (Read 4007 times)
BullardShooter
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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #45 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 8:36am
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Waterman -

I'm really enjoying all the detail you are providing.  What do you know about his 1884 travels where he promoted Bullard repeating rifles and reportedly competed (and won) matches across the country?  I wonder how far he ranged, how much of that year he spent on the road, etc. ?
  

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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #46 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 8:56am
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Another tidbit from 1884.  In Bullard Firearms, Scott Jamieson writes, “In late December 1884 the Bullard company had to duplicate a case of guns that went missing a month earlier in transit to the New Orleans Exposition.  Farrow, who had charge of the display, said the exposition was chaotic.  Colt also suffered a similar disaster.”

I sure wonder where that case of Bullards went.  Surely they were ultimately sold.  How would a collector know if they had one in their collection?
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #47 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 12:24pm
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If someone could identify a stolen gun today from that long ago would it be anything more than just interesting tidbit now? With no Bullard rifle company would a current owner need to compensate some distant heirs?
  

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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #48 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 12:43pm
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BullardShooter wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 8:36am:
Waterman -

I'm really enjoying all the detail you are providing.  What do you know about his 1884 travels where he promoted Bullard repeating rifles and reportedly competed (and won) matches across the country?  I wonder how far he ranged, how much of that year he spent on the road, etc. ?


Jamieson tells about the trip on p. 60 of his 2nd edition, Bullard Firearms
Pittsburgh PA, Wheeling WV, Indianapolis, Chicago, Milwaukee, then across Minnesota, to Montana, to Washington Territory (and presumably through one of the Dakotas and Idaho), to Oregon (mention made of Portland), and then to San Francisco. Then east to Salt Lake City and Ogden, Utah. Then home. Prep started in March 1884 and he returned to Springfield, Mass., is September. Trip covered some 10,000 miles, Farrow participated in about 50 matches, winning most of them, and fired some 4,000 cartridges. 

There is a photo of Teddy Roosevelt and 2 associates with Bullard rifles, photo taken in N. Dakota during TR's days there. Would that be associated with Farrow? 

Since the Large-Frame repeater was the only model then in production, and since it was made in .45-70 Gov't., I assume that Farrow took several with him, all .45-70, none with proprietary cartridges. That made resupply easier.  He was a long way from the factory, with what was really an unproven product.  He probably took spare parts and some tools.

What was the accuracy shelf life of a .45/70 BP cartridge in 1884?  Would WMF have taken cartridges in sealed tins?
« Last Edit: Apr 27th, 2024 at 1:01pm by waterman »  
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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #49 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 12:57pm
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marlinguy wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 12:24pm:
If someone could identify a stolen gun today from that long ago would it be anything more than just interesting tidbit now? With no Bullard rifle company would a current owner need to compensate some distant heirs?


Are you, as a collector, then in possession of stolen merchandise?  Who would be heirs?  The heirs of the stockholders?  Did Bullard ever pay all their bills?  They owed Pratt & Whitney some $25,000 for a lot of machinery. Could the lawyers for a wealthy corporation that makes aircraft engines come after your gun collection?  There are Statutes of Limitations for lesser monetary crimes, even bank robbery.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #50 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 1:10pm
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waterman wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 12:57pm:
marlinguy wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 12:24pm:
If someone could identify a stolen gun today from that long ago would it be anything more than just interesting tidbit now? With no Bullard rifle company would a current owner need to compensate some distant heirs?


Are you, as a collector, then in possession of stolen merchandise?  Who would be heirs?  The heirs of the stockholders?  Did Bullard ever pay all their bills?  They owed Pratt & Whitney some $25,000 for a lot of machinery. Could the lawyers for a wealthy corporation that makes aircraft engines come after your gun collection?  There are Statutes of Limitations for lesser monetary crimes, even bank robbery.


If I am it's news to me! But I was just replying to BullardShooter's comment about the stolen rifles.
  

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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #51 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 1:39pm
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marlinguy wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 1:10pm:
waterman wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 12:57pm:
marlinguy wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 12:24pm:
If someone could identify a stolen gun today from that long ago would it be anything more than just interesting tidbit now? With no Bullard rifle company would a current owner need to compensate some distant heirs?


Are you, as a collector, then in possession of stolen merchandise?  Who would be heirs?  The heirs of the stockholders?  Did Bullard ever pay all their bills?  They owed Pratt & Whitney some $25,000 for a lot of machinery. Could the lawyers for a wealthy corporation that makes aircraft engines come after your gun collection?  There are Statutes of Limitations for lesser monetary crimes, even bank robbery.


If I am it's news to me! But I was just replying to BullardShooter's comment about the stolen rifles.


"You" was intended as generic, applies to all of us as collectors or accumulators.
  
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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #52 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 2:38pm
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waterman wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 12:43pm:
BullardShooter wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 8:36am:
Waterman -

I'm really enjoying all the detail you are providing.  What do you know about his 1884 travels where he promoted Bullard repeating rifles and reportedly competed (and won) matches across the country?  I wonder how far he ranged, how much of that year he spent on the road, etc. ?


Jamieson tells about the trip on p. 60 of his 2nd edition, Bullard Firearms
Pittsburgh PA, Wheeling WV, Indianapolis, Chicago, Milwaukee, then across Minnesota, to Montana, to Washington Territory (and presumably through one of the Dakotas and Idaho), to Oregon (mention made of Portland), and then to San Francisco. Then east to Salt Lake City and Ogden, Utah. Then home. Prep started in March 1884 and he returned to Springfield, Mass., is September. Trip covered some 10,000 miles, Farrow participated in about 50 matches, winning most of them, and fired some 4,000 cartridges. 

There is a photo of Teddy Roosevelt and 2 associates with Bullard rifles, photo taken in N. Dakota during TR's days there. Would that be associated with Farrow? 

Since the Large-Frame repeater was the only model then in production, and since it was made in .45-70 Gov't., I assume that Farrow took several with him, all .45-70, none with proprietary cartridges. That made resupply easier.  He was a long way from the factory, with what was really an unproven product.  He probably took spare parts and some tools.

What was the accuracy shelf life of a .45/70 BP cartridge in 1884?  Would WMF have taken cartridges in sealed tins?


Waterman -

Thanks for the reminder of what Scott wrote in his book regarding Farrow's 1884 travels.  It seems these days I can remember something I read 50 years ago easier than I can remember something I read last week.   

1884 sure sounds like a whirlwind trip for Farrow.  He must have been a driven man with a good amount of energy.

As far as guns stolen 140 years ago, I have no idea how far back a statute of limitations would apply.  It is an interesting question. I can't see I've seen anything that would apply.  I have heard of stolen guns being return to original owners - but the owners have still be living.  In this case, I doubt the serial numbers of those stolen Bullards are available anywhere.
  

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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #53 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 3:21pm
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I have this second hand, but supposedly this is a quote from Ned Roberts and Ken Waters book, The Breech-Loading Single-Shot Rifle:

"Riflemen who have used the Farrow rifle at all extensively agree that it is as near the perfect single-shot target rifle as has ever been made in this country, and it is indeed unfortunate that this action, at least, is not in production now".

Phil Sharpe, in his book, Rifle in America references the short hammer fall and suggests it was one of our first "speed action" rifles.

By the way, wasn't someone making a small number of Farrow reproduction rifles?
  

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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #54 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 6:39pm
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My 4th Model Farrow in .22 LR is a great offhand rifle, as long as you understand its funky behavior.  Other than as an offhand rifle, I'm not sure.  I think it depends on what you want to do with one and what Model you have.
  
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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #55 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 8:13pm
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I haven’t been able to learn where in Brattleboro, Vt., the Farrows lived, nor have I been able to learn where the first Farrow Fire-Arms Company was located.  I don’t think it was a secret, just not important enough for anyone of the day to write about it.  I joined the Brattleboro Historical Society for a year and bombarded them with Farrow questions.  They never heard of him.  They asked if I wrote anything, please send them a copy.

Apparently, WMF bought machinery from a machine shop somewhere in Massachusetts that had gone out of business & had it shipped to Brattleboro.  Then he hired a man who worked at the machine shop to come to Brattleboro and help set up the machinery and get it operating.  I think Farrow wanted to be a one-man band, doing everything, but knew when he needed help.  He also kept in contact with the lead machinist and lead stockmaker from Bullard.  With the help of these men, he got all of his machinery, apparently including a rifling machine, up and running.

Even with that, the first Farrow Fire-Arms Company (FFC 1) was a kitchen table operation, with the sole personnel being WMF (and Abbie, when the kids were in school).  Like any prudent small business people, WMF and Abbie kept the family finances (double eagles) separate from business finances (greenbacks).  

But a sole proprietorship doesn’t present the sort of “big time, professional” appearance that WMF wanted to convey.  Using his reputation, he persuaded 5 or 6 of the leading businessmen in Brattleboro to buy 100 shares in company stock at $3 per share.  That’s not 100 shares each.  It’s 100 shares between the lot of them.  And I've read elsewhere that it was 100 shares each. Take your pick.

Then he persuaded another few men of slightly less social stature to be company officers, a Board of Directors.  WMF was president, the others were VP, Treasurer, Secretary, etc.  It was probably no coincidence that FFC 1’s Board of Directors were also the Board of Directors of the Brattleboro Rifle Club.  Apparently, the company officers did not have any money invested in FFC 1.  

Was FFC 1 really a corporation?  Doubtful.  Was it even a real company, with a real Board of Directors, legally established?  Again, doubtful.  I think it was just window dressing, for advertising, and maybe something to feed WMF’s ego.  But FFC 1 now had $30,000? (greenbacks) in working capital.  WMF owned all the machinery free and clear.  
« Last Edit: Apr 29th, 2024 at 2:09pm by waterman »  
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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #56 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 8:16pm
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Arthur Corbin Gould, owner, publisher and editor of The Rifle, was a rifleman of the old school, valuing accuracy above all.  ACG cared not a whit for repeaters and viewed breech-loading single shots as having a lot of unnecessary parts, all of which detracted from a rifle’s accuracy.  To increase circulation of his magazine, and to push his point, ACG arranged for a rifle match at the spring 1886 meeting of the National Rifle Club in Vernon, Vermont.

The National Rifle Club had been around since the 1850s.  Members shot heavy muzzle-loading rifles from the bench or from machine rests and used telescopic sights.  Distance for the matches was 40 rods.  Scores were “string measure”, the cumulative distance from the center of each bullet-hole to a pin-head sized mark, measured to the nearest 1/16th of an inch.  The winner of a 30-shot match often had a “string measure” of about 36 inches, sometimes less.  On today’s target, a winning score would almost all the of the 30 shots in the 25-ring, with only one or two going into the 24-ring.   

The match was to be between the National Rifle Club members using their heavy rifles and, by invitation, some of the nation’s leading marksmen using their breech-loaders.  Willard Milton Farrow was one of the invitees.  The match was to be held on May 26, 1886.

In the spring of 1885, Milton needed to promote his rifle and was probably delighted with the invitation.  He would have a letter of acceptance in the mail within a day or two.  He recognized that he had to gain some experience with benchrest shooting and with the use of a telescopic sight.  The National Rifle Club’s range at Vernon, Vermont was only about a 2-hour buggy ride north of Brattleboro.  (The people at the Brattleboro Historical Society had never heard of the National Rifle Club, either.)

The spring meeting of the National Rifle Club was held on May 26 and 27, 1886, at the Vernon, Vermont range.  One 10-shot string measure target was shot on the 26th, two on the 27th.  Eleven competitors finished the match.  As expected, the 15 lb. muzzle-loaders won the day.  First place went to D.A. Brown, shooting a Horace Warner .45, with a 412 grain bullet and 123 grains of powder.  The center of his average shot was 1 and 3/16” from the center of the bull.  The next 3 places went to men shooting Norman Brockway’s rifles.  All had string measures less than 49 inches.   
  
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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #57 - Apr 27th, 2024 at 8:21pm
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The spring meeting of the National Rifle Club was held on May 26 and 27, 1886, at the Vernon, Vermont range.  One 10-shot string measure target was shot on the 26th, two on the 27th.  

Eleven competitors finished the match.  As expected, the 15 lb. muzzle-loaders won the day.  First place went to D.A. Brown, shooting a Horace Warner .45, with a 412 grain bullet and 123 grains of powder.  The center of his average shot was 1 and 3/16” from the center of the bull.  The next 3 places went to men shooting Norman Brockway’s rifles.  All had string measures less than 49 inches.  

The best of the breech-loaders finished in 6th place; Francis J. Rabbeth, shooting a Remington Hepburn in .38-55, with a 330 grain bullet.  His measure was 60 and 5/8”.  

C.W. Hinman took 7th place, shooting a Maynard in .35/65 with a 255 grain bullet.  He shot a 65 and ˝” string.

Farrow finished in 10th place, with an 80 and ˝” string.  His must have been one of the earliest Farrow rifles, chambered in .32/40 Remington, with a 187 grain bullet.  

Dead last was G. F. Ellsworth, a 90 and 13/16” string.  He shot a Ballard in .38/50 with 290 grain bullets.

For WMF, that had to be a very humbling experience.  
 
In the photo below, WMF is 3rd from the leftI AM WRONG! Harry Pope!  Must be a different year.   WMF b.1848, d.1934; HMP b. 1861, d.1950.
 
If you are into eccentric guys with quite accurate muzzle-loaders, I think William V. Lowe is on the right. Lowe finished 5th in this match.  He and Horace Warner built competition rifles in partnership for some time.
« Last Edit: Apr 29th, 2024 at 1:41pm by waterman »  
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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #58 - Apr 28th, 2024 at 7:26am
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waterman wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 8:16pm:
......
In the spring of 1885, Milton needed to promote his rifle and was probably delighted with the invitation.  .....  

Question, I presume the photo shown of the shooters was from the match in question. If so can you comment why Farrow is holding a Ballard rifle and not his own? Not the best way to promote his rifle.
  
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Re: Question about W. Milton Farrow
Reply #59 - Apr 28th, 2024 at 7:35am
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marlinguy wrote on Apr 27th, 2024 at 12:24pm:
If someone could identify a stolen gun today from that long ago would it be anything more than just interesting tidbit now? With no Bullard rifle company would a current owner need to compensate some distant heirs?

It's a question to ponder with no merit and as meritless as all the current discussions of "reparations" coming out of the left coast.
As to today if similar occurs, like you have a gun or anything for that matter, stolen and the insurance company settles with you , then you no longer are the owner and have no stake in the game. If the object is found and or recovered, you can negotiate with the insurance company to buy it back.
  
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