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A cute little Ballard (Read 3971 times)

Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Online Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 1969 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #15 - Mar 10^th, 2024 at 2:55pm	Print Post
	I've seen several Winchester 22 rimfire barrels with that same marking, I have one in 22 Short on a Ballard action and it's also a part octagon. I'd like to know more about them. This is a pic of a Winchester Hiwall 32-40 sold by Amoskeag auctions.
	« Last Edit: Mar 10^th, 2024 at 3:54pm by Schutzenbob »

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15746 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #16 - Mar 10^th, 2024 at 4:50pm	Print Post
	rifleman wrote on Mar 10^th, 2024 at 1:33pm: I assumed the Soule sight was fitted after at some point as well. As to whether the base itself was made originally for a Ballard, I studied the one in Dutchers book thats on a Rigby and it looks identical. Thats all I know. Since the front sight has an abnormally small dovetail, I figured it was fitted to this barrel when it was installed on this action and the Soule was added at that time for some windage. But no one knows. I have a lot of Ballard rifles with tang sights and that base isn't like any of them. The forward half looks similar to the thick bases used, but back looks like the thin bases. So it's obviously not a Ballard base as they'd be the same appearance front of the staff as to the rear of the staff. If you look on p.288 of Dutcher's book the first sight on the left has the more common thick base, and the one to the right has the thin base. Yours appears to have one end thinned down, and not shaped correctly. But they still didn't make a Soule, regardless. As for a "Soule base" they don't exist that I know of? The staffs have the Soule adjustment in them, not the bases.

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rifleman Full Member Offline Posts: 147 Joined: Aug 4^th, 2015	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #17 - Mar 10^th, 2024 at 5:12pm	Print Post
	Vall I think we are agreeing. I was not suggesting that this base was at some point prior a Factory Marlin Ballard base as used on their midrange sight that would have come on this Union Hill. This base is stamped ‘Pat appd for’ and the number 18 to match the 18 stamped on the staff. And it is spaced for a Ballard and looks identical to the Soule sight in Dutchers book.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15746 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #18 - Mar 10^th, 2024 at 6:53pm	Print Post
	John shows one Soule sight on p.287 and it does look like yours, but I don't think it is something made by Marlin. The few old catalogs I have for Marlin rifles in the 1880's don't show any Soule sights offered. I suppose the sight may be something offered by some company, but if it's a true Soule, he didn't even patent his Soule sight until August of 1889, and the Ballard rifles only lasted another year after that. So most rifles didn't get a Soule offered until at least 1890, regardless of the brand or model. That said, I think your sight is likely a rare Soule built by JW Soule, as it looks much like his patent sight I found in Tom Rowe's book on old gunsights.

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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11327 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #19 - Mar 10^th, 2024 at 7:11pm	Print Post
	American Rifle Sights, Tom Rowe. Page 271 shows a Soule sight with Ballard base. Soule offered sights for various rifles so stands to reason they made bases. Sight and base looks like the sight in this thread.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15746 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #20 - Mar 10^th, 2024 at 10:48pm	Print Post
	westerner wrote on Mar 10^th, 2024 at 7:11pm: American Rifle Sights, Tom Rowe. Page 271 shows a Soule sight with Ballard base. Soule offered sights for various rifles so stands to reason they made bases. Sight and base looks like the sight in this thread. That's what I said in my last post Joe. That's why I told rifleman he appeared to have a Soule sight made by JW Soule. On the 2nd page of the book Tom has a picture of JW Soule's patent, and one of his sights.

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15746 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #21 - Mar 11^th, 2024 at 12:26am	Print Post
	Do you know how someone did the conversion to .22RF? Offset shank, or modify the breech block?

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rifleman Full Member Offline Posts: 147 Joined: Aug 4^th, 2015	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #22 - Mar 11^th, 2024 at 7:17am	Print Post
	They welded up the firing pin channel and redrilled at a slight downward angle using the original firing pin. The center fire extractor was also retained, welded up and reshaped. It has not caused me any issues so far. I do have to flick the empty out the last bit with my fingernail but it is not nearly as bad as the Hepburn 22lr I owned.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15746 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #23 - Mar 11^th, 2024 at 10:06am	Print Post
	rifleman wrote on Mar 11^th, 2024 at 7:17am: They welded up the firing pin channel and redrilled at a slight downward angle using the original firing pin. The center fire extractor was also retained, welded up and reshaped. It has not caused me any issues so far. I do have to flick the empty out the last bit with my fingernail but it is not nearly as bad as the Hepburn 22lr I owned. Thanks. I have a few that use the CF extractor and they work fine also. One is a late model Cody Ballard and the guys at Cody used a CF extractor on their .22RF builds also.

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Old-Win Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1642 Location: Minnesota Joined: Nov 24^th, 2005	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #24 - Mar 11^th, 2024 at 10:38am	Print Post
	Schutzenbob wrote on Mar 10^th, 2024 at 2:55pm: I've seen several Winchester 22 rimfire barrels with that same marking, I have one in 22 Short on a Ballard action and it's also a part octagon. I'd like to know more about them. This is a pic of a Winchester Hiwall 32-40 sold by Amoskeag auctions. Here's another rare one on an 1894 Winchester barrel that was also marked H. M. Pope.


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11327 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #25 - Mar 11^th, 2024 at 2:10pm	Print Post
	.38, .384 groove dia. #4, 30 inches. Less taper than my other barrels. Very accurate. Because it's special and made to order.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Online Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 1969 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #26 - Mar 11^th, 2024 at 11:14pm	Print Post
	This is the top flat of my 22 gallery rifle barrel.


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kensmachine Oldtimer Offline Posts: 548 Joined: Nov 21^st, 2012	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #27 - Mar 12^th, 2024 at 12:14am	Print Post
	At one time I had a 32-40 barrel so marked it was part of a 2 barrel Ballard set the other barrel was a 22 pope barrel the guy I got it from sent the Ballard to Auction with the pope barrel.


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rkba2nd Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1823 Location: earth Joined: Feb 16^th, 2009	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #28 - Mar 12^th, 2024 at 1:54pm	Print Post
	Schuetzenbob Nifty Pope cuts also, original I presume?

	rkba2nd
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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Online Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 1969 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: A cute little Ballard Reply #29 - Mar 12^th, 2024 at 5:52pm	Print Post
	rkba2nd, it's a gallery rifle that I bought many years ago....it had been used long and hard, although the bore is excellent. The scallops were already there.


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