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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) breech biock hole (Read 4457 times)
gwahir
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breech biock hole
Sep 11th, 2023 at 12:44pm
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If any one used the milling machine quill to cut a rectangular breech block hole, I would like to know the process!
  
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frnkeore
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #1 - Sep 11th, 2023 at 12:49pm
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Are you talking about a square cornered hole? If so, it can only be done by broaching or on a shaper.
  

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rgchristensen
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #2 - Sep 11th, 2023 at 12:55pm
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I have used an appropriate cutter in a lathe tool-holder as a shaper to cut certain slots.  I suppose you could do the same to make a square hole.   IOW, you run the lathe feed in and out to make the cuts, indexing the chuck appropriately.

CHRIS
  
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cuslog
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #3 - Sep 11th, 2023 at 2:37pm
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I have done 2 breech block mortices now.
I roughed them out by drilling, then extended end mills, then finished by making a filing jig with HSS pins to keep the file straight and limit how deep it would cut.
There is a book out there (can't think of the name ATM)on making your own falling block action c/w plans for a kind of shaper adapter for the quill of a B/P mill. I made one but found it difficult to use, then made my filing jig. Rather tedious but it can be done.
  
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jhm
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #4 - Sep 11th, 2023 at 4:04pm
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I have done one 77 and two 74 Sharps actions using the quill method. Made my own cutters out of A2 then heat treated them. Everything has to be square and rigid to keep everything square. You have to be able to securely lock your quill so it doesn't rotate. Your holding fixture if not in a good mill vise must also be able to hold things steady. The actions were 8620 material so they cut easily. I take out as much as possible using end mills down to 1/4 inch which leaves a 1/8 radius in the corners. Then I square the corners. It takes time and patience but as said it can be done. Make sure and leave a small radius in the corners so you don't create stress risers. Built my fixtures and cutters from an old video of John King doing some 77 receiver kits for I think Rodney Storie in the early eighties.



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frnkeore
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #5 - Sep 11th, 2023 at 4:06pm
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You can also do it in a Bridgeport type mill. Bridgeport made a "slotting" head that went on the back of the turret. You see them on Ebay, every now and then. There are also dedicated Slotters. I used to have one, back in the mid 70's. It had a round, indexing, 12" table, about the right size for gun work.

But, you can also do one of, type stuff, using the quill on the BP. 

Grind a square tool, long enough to clear the bottom of the part and then, feed it in .002-.003 at a time. Do a rough then a finish cut.

The square tool could be made from a square HSS tool bit or a lathe parting tool. You'll have to find a good way to hold it in the quill. I would recommend a end mill holder so, it can bottom out (not hurting anything) and won't push up in the collect.
  

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cuslog
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #6 - Sep 11th, 2023 at 5:26pm
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"Building a Single Shot Falling Block Rifle Action" by Walter B. Mueller is the book and author's name I couldn't recall earlier. In it he describes (maybe photos too ?) a shop built attachment for the quill of a Bridgeport type mill. Actually, a smart design because the cutting tool is spring loaded and pulls away from the work piece on the return stroke so it doesn't drag.
  
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bnice
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #7 - Sep 11th, 2023 at 5:50pm
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Frank DeHaas
  
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gwahir
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #8 - Sep 11th, 2023 at 6:46pm
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I have cut a left hand extractor slot using the quill and handle on the milling machine. I have to figure out a spring loaded cutter. I was retracting buy hand for the return and it was confusing. DRO helps! I was holding the quill using a wrench on the top of the bolt and am interested in options.

Thanks for the help.
  
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GT
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #9 - Sep 11th, 2023 at 8:09pm
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Gerry,
I have a couple of different slotters in my shop that I've used over the years and a Bridgeport brand was another that I had but was happy when it went away...  I retro'd a K&T attachment to my #2 cincinatti and it works about as well a good Pratt and Whitney. 
A couple of things, is your Bridgeport a variable or a J-head?  The variable you have to put it in back gear, run it all the way down before you shut it off and a tool will still turn on you - some.  A j-head, leave it in high gear and throw your side lever forward and it will lock the spindle.   
I use either a 3/8" or 1/2" piece of cold rolled round, and silver solder a 1/4 or 5/16" HSS tool bit to the round and grind it to my desired shape, generally about a 60° or more included point and use that for cutting my mortice.  Be careful not to get things too hot.  Recently, switched from using HSS tool bits to using Tantung as it is a little more durable but it's more work and sometimes hard too find, even on eBay.
I use my BP spindle for squaring almost all my castings, but when its an action from a piece of stock, the slotters are a better choice.
As far as a clapper box or some such animal, I don't worry about it.  Run a neutral or negative rake on the face of the tool, plan on roughing things out and I've taken as much as .025" in that pass, but follow with a re-sharpened tool and scratching with a .005 or less finish pass.  The '74 Sharps is about the longest mortice to cut, plus the dual extractor cuts and I've had them turn out straight and square.
There's a photo of a tool using tantung and one of several Hepburns I did.  The tool shank diameter is dictated by what size mortice you're working on.  The hepburn doesn't give you a lot of room to manuever in.
Here's a most recent project, squaring the mortice on a Zettler, there's three of them now with this part done...  A little patience and finesse, which you have, they'll turn out fine.
Greg
  

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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #10 - Sep 11th, 2023 at 9:57pm
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Here is a tool I made some years ago when I needed to square some holes at work and the company's policy wouldn't let me take them home and do them on my shaper. This fits into Bridgeport collet. The angle on the 1/2" square HSS tool in the holder gives relief on the two sides and the end grind gives the rake.
  

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John Taylor
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #11 - Sep 12th, 2023 at 8:26am
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Last time I did a square hole I used a keyway broach. You would have to make up a guide to make it work.
  

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gwahir
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #12 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 8:16pm
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I come here to learn stuff and am seldom disappointed! I saw Kootne's, system, above, and having a half inch square HSS cutter like he used, I put together a system and cut this hole. In order to set it up, I stabilize the quill like Greg said and place the tool loosely in the milling machine collet. Then I lower the quill to where I can grab the square cutter in the milling machine vice to line up the cutter. Then I tighten the collet, and I am good to go! The tool requires constant sharpening and I put a simple fixture on my grinder to get this right. 

Anyway, the whole hole process was quite doable!

Gentlemen, thanks!
  
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GT
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #13 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:17pm
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Looks like it turned out well!
  

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bobw
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Re: breech biock hole
Reply #14 - Sep 18th, 2023 at 10:35pm
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It looks like we are building something from scratch!
  

Robert Warren
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