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n.r.davis
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Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:09pm
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Going to be Lining a Highwall and measuring the existing fit I can close the Breach Block on a .010 shim.  32-40 so may be o.k. but I want .001 gap.  I Welded the Breach on a Favorite to close a .012 gap and machined it to a .001 fit.  I may be too Fussy, well o.k. I'm fussy, but Close Enough isn't to my liking.  Advice please!  Thanks, David
  
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JLouis
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #1 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 1:28pm
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Is it for competition or for field use.
  

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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #2 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 1:49pm
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"Once more into the breach, dear friends..."

If you use a 9/16" TJ'S Liner, just leave the breech end protruding slightly and pare it back until the block just touches it when it slides open and closed.  There should be enough meat on the liner for the chamber and the rim seat and some extra metal against the block on firing.

I had somebody line and chamber a Ballard in .22 RF with one of those skinny Redman liners.  There wasn't enough metal around the rim when the gunsmith cut  the chamber and after a few shots, it broke off.  Then I got burst rims when I fired the thing.

One of the incidents that persuaded me to try gunsmithing on my own.  Could I do worse?  Yes, but at least I wasn't paying myself the big bucks.

I turned a washer with a hole the size of a .22 rim, cut a slot for the extractor, degreased washer and breech face, greased an empty .22 shell and the extractor, and glued the washer to the breech end using the shell and extractor to keep the washer indexed properly.  I used JB Weld.

So far, the thing has digested a carton or so of standard velocity .22s without loosening.  I'm careful not to slop cleaning solvent or oils all over it.  I guess the barrel could have been removed and the extractor cut done after soldering the washer on, but I didn't want to go that route if the glue worked.
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2023 at 3:10pm by Bent_Ramrod »  
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n.r.davis
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #3 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 2:06pm
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Going to be a shooter, field use.  Bent Ramrod 😲.  Nice solution!  David
  
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JLouis
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #4 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 5:12pm
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For field use 10 thousandths would have been just fine for any dust, dirt or other debris and still being able to close the action. 
For competition use I would headspace off of the back of the case and it being about 5 thousandths proud and it would then be set at actually being zero.
And to the point that it would also take just a little bit of pressure to actually close the breechblock against the back of the case. 
While also using the case with the thickest rim thickness out of a batch of the same lot of brass.
This I would do for my friends and for myself I would thin my own rims for them all to be exactly the same thickness.
I would also use the thinnest rim thickness for my go or no go chambering guage.
I would also then cut / uniform all of my primer pocket depths to the minimum specifications. 
I would also try to locate your own thickest rim thickness and to then re-check your own preferred headspace for your own personal use.  
One might actually be abit surprised and depending on the brass that one might have on hand it can actually vary quite allot.
« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2023 at 5:53pm by JLouis »  

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uscra112
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #5 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 6:16pm
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Breech face must be square to the barrel axis for best accuracy.  Creighton Audette proved this conclusively many years ago.   

Stevens 44 and Favorite breechblocks must clamp up against the barrel face when closing.  Less than zero clearance.  At the same time the rear of the breechblock must be in contact with the shoulders in the frame, so that the rearward thrust isn't all thrown onto the pivot.   I can elaborate, but it's too much for a forum post.
  

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JLouis
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #6 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 6:49pm
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I was actually trying to share what it is that I actually do and I was also just trying to keep it short.
I have shared all of what I actually do and in allot more detail here in the past. 
Because I also now chamber my own and have also done a few for friends for the use of large Pistol Primer use.
If also wanting to use Large Rifle Primers it just takes a simple matter of uniforming the primer pocker depths to their own minimal primer pocket specs. 

  

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marlinguy
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #7 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 7:14pm
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What the breech block clearance is isn't the whole story. What it is with a case chambered is the rest of the story. I've owned single shots that appeared to have pretty fair headspace on an empty chamber. But chamber a cartridge and check it again, and the headspace is perfect.
  

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uscra112
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #8 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 7:59pm
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n.r.davis wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:09pm:
Going to be Lining a Highwall and measuring the existing fit I can close the Breach Block on a .010 shim.  32-40 so may be o.k. but I want .001 gap.  I Welded the Breach on a Favorite to close a .012 gap and machined it to a .001 fit.  I may be too Fussy, well o.k. I'm fussy, but Close Enough isn't to my liking.  Advice please!  Thanks, David


Thinking back to a Stevens 44 I bought last year which had been very badly set up after it was relined, I simply set the barrel back a turn and trimmed the breech face for proper contact.  Then had to deepen the chamber and the extractor cut a bit, of course.
  

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JLouis
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #9 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 8:02pm
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Would not the face of the rim being in full contact with the rim recesses cut depth not actually be the actual determining factor for the actual headspace? 

  

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uscra112
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #10 - Jan 23rd, 2023 at 8:03pm
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marlinguy wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 7:14pm:
What the breech block clearance is isn't the whole story. What it is with a case chambered is the rest of the story. I've owned single shots that appeared to have pretty fair headspace on an empty chamber. But chamber a cartridge and check it again, and the headspace is perfect.


For a Winchester, this is very true.
  

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Old-Win
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #11 - Jan 24th, 2023 at 9:54am
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Well, here's another take on how to headspace a high wall and it will contradict what some others have said here so take it for what it's worth and study all the ideas and make your own choice. My understanding of the Winchester high wall is that the breech block was designed to go over top dead center and then drop back down a little bit. The timing of this is not controlled by the curve of the lever bottoming out against the lower tang. It is controlled by the flat portion of the lever bottoming out on the two little tabs at the front of the lower tang. You should always want your breech block to go over top dead center and then drop back down. That way you're firing pin will always hit the primer in the same spot. Ultimately it's going to come down to how you're going to headspace the rifle and choosing your brass. If you're going to have the barrel against the breech block with minimum clearance, then your rim depth will have to be very close to what the thickness of your brass is. You could also give yourself more clearance with the barrel from the breach block and have the rim of the brass stick out slightly from the end of the barrel. In either case you have to take into consideration the rim thickness of your brass. All brass rim thicknesses are not equal even within the same brand . You may find the action may close easily on some of the brass but others bind tightly at the top when the breech block has reached its max but it may prevent it from dropping back down over top dead center. If you really want to look for perfection, use minimum headspace (around .003"-.005") and then trim all the rims of your brass so that their uniform in thickness.
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2023 at 10:24am by Old-Win »  
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marlinguy
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #12 - Jan 24th, 2023 at 11:50am
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JLouis wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 8:02pm:
Would not the face of the rim being in full contact with the rim recesses cut depth not actually be the actual determining factor for the actual headspace? 



Maybe in a perfect world the rim recess and rim thickness will be exactly the same. But there can be variations between the reamer's rim cut and brass. Or often variations in rim thickness between brands of brass also. So I never trust the headspace to be the same on an empty chamber and a case chambered. Need to check them both ways.
  

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JLouis
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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #13 - Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:51pm
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My error by not knowing what it was actually that the OP was going to use it for. 
If replacing a barrel one can actually make it a perfect world if one is actually doing it themselves.
With that being said Ole Win did point out several real good points. 
And we actually did not differ very much in our two own individual approaches.
« Last Edit: Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:58pm by JLouis »  

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Re: Breach Block to Breach Face Fitting
Reply #14 - Jan 28th, 2023 at 9:15am
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SSDave Ole treeblood, blast from the past@
moodyholler
  
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