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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling (Read 4374 times)
S99VG
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Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Aug 25th, 2022 at 11:45am
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Simply because I do not have the experience, what would be the odds of having a barrel not original to either of these actions fit and head space properly?  I am not talking about trying to fit a 44 barrel to a 44 1/2 or vice versa, but instead of having what I would call a "bastard" barrel fit up to either action and work without the services of a gunsmith such as having a 22 long rifle barrel fit to a Stevens 414 that, in its original configuration, was a 22 short.  Would I be be betting the long or short odds on that proposition?  Thanks much. 
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2022 at 11:51am by S99VG »  
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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #1 - Aug 25th, 2022 at 4:02pm
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Based on a PM it spunds like a random barrel would not be expected to fit a 44 or a 44 1/2 action, unless one got lucky.
  
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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #2 - Aug 25th, 2022 at 5:25pm
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For model 44’s in my experience, they will usually index pretty close, headspace is more of a crapshoot. However, a barrel from a Savage made Stevens 44, will not index even close on a Stevens A&T frame and vice versa. On 44 1/2’s, I have been pretty lucky for the barrels to index, (not all) but again having them headspace correctly is a crapshoot.
  
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #3 - Aug 25th, 2022 at 5:51pm
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I don’t have extra 44 barrels, but the extra 44-1/2 barrels I have seem to fit on the actions I have and shoot OK.  Most of my actions are the standard 44-1/2 and 45 type plain trigger sporting versions.  My highest grade is a 47.

Strictly speaking, a mongrel barrel might go a teensy bit of a turn past the index if screwed in tight by hand, and no doubt the crush fit accomplished by an action wrench and barrel vise would run it to maybe a 32nd of a turn, but screwing them home by hand and tightening the set screw on the bottom locks the assembly together well enough.  I’ve never seen one come up short of index, myself.

IIRC, Grant mentioned this same observation in one of his books that the Stevens takedown system doesn’t cause inaccurate shooting.

Never had headspace or other problems with these marriages.  The parts seem to have been made to gauge, and if there’s a gap between breech and block, some more tightening can be gained by choosing a link with a slightly different hole spacing to run the block slightly forward or back.  I’ve never seen an actual visible gap, though.  More common is an off-center primer strike.

All these barrels are chambered for blackpowder calibers of small-to-medium size, as were available when the guns were new.  This easy fit would not be indicated if the barrel is for a high-intensity modern caliber, of course.

And, of course, if one demands the ultimate in modern target accuracy, such practice would have the shooter always second-guessing his misses, with that loose barrel as a possible cause.  I pretty much stick to the old standards for all my antique originals:  under 2-1/2” at 100 yds, acceptable run-of-the-mine; 1-1/4” or so definitely gilt-edge; less than that, a treasure.  Harry Pope might not have liked Stevens work, but I do.

On reline jobs I’ll face the breech for a tight fit by hand, and do what I can to chamber for minimum headspace.  But I’m always delighted to find an extra Stevens barrel in shootable condition in “my” price range, and never have been bothered by the question of “will it fit?”
  
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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #4 - Aug 25th, 2022 at 8:45pm
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I'll add my nickel's worth:

Stevens never "clocked" their barrels the way Winchester did. This I think is why every barrel is serial-numbered to the receiver.  I can't remember that I've ever had a mismatched barrel "clock" correctly.

Fitting a 44 barrel, the first thing I do in the lathe is to trim the shoulder until the barrel (and extractor cut) index correctly. I like it to take about 1/3 of a flat after the barrel comes hand-tight. That's about .002 of crush-fit to take up slack in the thread.*

Then, having previously tightened-up the linkage with new pins, I trim the breech face so that the lockup is about .003 interference fit. The breechblock should be clamped tightly against the barrel face.

Then and only then, finalize the chamber.  ALL of the headspace is in the depth pf the rim recess.

The extractor cut will probably require deepening.

I think the reason the 44s shot so well is that the aspect ratio of the tenon leaves little room for the barrel to pitch and yaw in the receiver.  Compare to the wretched design Remington used for the later #4 rolling blocks.

*I've got a .22 in process right now that goes about half a flat past index before it comes tight.  I'm going to set that barrel back a turn to get it right.  "It's only a .22" but I'm going to do it because I can.  I just had John Taylor put a TJ liner in it, and I want it to have all the advantages I can give it.  (This the single-set-trigger 44 I was crowing about a few weeks ago.)
« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2022 at 8:53pm by uscra112 »  

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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #5 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 10:33am
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I am curious, I have a 414 in .22 short that I can try a couple of barrels on from different guns. I will do so tonight after work.

Right now I have a 45-44 1/2 that was originally a .32 Ideal that has a mismatch .32-20 barrel on it. It indexes and headspaces perfectly, another barrel in .25-20 ss does the same on this action. I have another 44 1/2 that was originally a .22 LR that has a .32-40 mismatch barrel and a breech block from a different rifle, indexes fine, headspace is a little bit loose, but I haven’t had any issues with primers backing out while firing.
  
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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #6 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 10:46am
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I should have limited my comment about clocking to 44 barrels.  I don't do much with the 44-1/2 models.
  

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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #7 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 12:21pm
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It sounds like the luck of the draw to me.  A random barrel may or may not fit up to a 44 or a 44 1/2.  My only experience with this is a barrel I purchased from this forum a few months back for a 44 1/2.  The barrel was not a factory barrel from Stevens and it will go into 404 action I have only as far as the end of the threads, where it binds up leaving the shank in front of the threads exposed.  To me, this condition suggets that the thread pitch on the barrel is not an exact match to the receiver.  Is this a correct interpretation or is this something that can be "cleaned up" with a little work?  Thanks much again, I appreciate all the comments you guys posted.
  
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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #8 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 1:11pm
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I have several 44 1/2’s that when you try to screw in a mismatched original barrel, it seems to thread in about 2/3rds of the way and then bind. Then trying that same barrel on a different action it will thread in all the way and index properly. Why this happens I haven’t a clue.
  
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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #9 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 1:58pm
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Sounds like there’s some variability in the thread pitch.  Also sounds like a good question for Gail at CPA.
  
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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #10 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 4:12pm
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Measure precisely the diameter of the tenon adjacent the shoulder vs. the diameter of the mortise in the receiver.  The tighter this fit is, the better the barrel will be controlled in pitch and yaw.  Maybe compare barrels that DO fit with those that get tight.   

I could see how the pitch diameters could be a mismatch, but not the actual pitch.  Even in 1910 they could control the pitch pretty closely.  In the factory they would have had go/no-go ring gages, whereas an aftermarket maker today would probably rely on a thread mike or just assume his CNC was doing it right,
  

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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #11 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 4:13pm
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My 414 .22 short.
The .25 rf barrel needs about 1/8 turn to index.
The extra .22 LR barrel I have indexes perfectly, the headspace is about the same with the .22 short barrel, both have the lever droop because the action needs rebuilding with new link pins.
  
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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #12 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 6:32pm
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Okay here’s an earlier A&T model  44 in .25-20 ss, I tried a extra 22 LR barrel on it, it indexes perfectly. I cannot close the action without taking the .25-20 extractor out to check headspace.
Small sample but 2 barrels out of 3 model 44/414’s indexed okay.
  
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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #13 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 6:47pm
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Better buy some lottery tickets before your luck runs out!   Grin
  

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Re: Stevens 44 and 44 1/2 Barrels - Need Schooling
Reply #14 - Aug 26th, 2022 at 7:10pm
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The 44 SST with a couple of examples from the tomato-stake bin.
  

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