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« Created by: Piltdownman on: May 7th, 2022 at 3:05am »
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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Perspective on bullet sorting (Read 1969 times)
gnoahhh
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Perspective on bullet sorting
May 4th, 2022 at 8:28am
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I've been prepping (last minute, frantically) for our first match of the season this week - mainly the chore of preparing sufficient quantities of bullets. Funny how "This pile of bullets ought to last me two years" is a statement I make every six months.

I know by now what weight to expect from my "go-to" favorite moulds with my 1:30 alloy (carefully created with an accurate digital scale). I weight sort in .1 grain increments and pan lube the bullets that fall closest to the nominal weight, which is thankfully the majority. My "premo" bullets are strictly those which weigh exactly the nominal weight with a tolerance of minus .1 grain. Secondary bullets are those that vary no more than .3 grain from nominal, and still segregated in groups that display no more than .1 grain variance among them. All the rest that stray outside those parameters either get saved for fouling shots or go back in the pot. (Additionally, visual inspection for physical observable defects takes place.)

Am I all wet? Being too obsessive? Should I expand my acceptable tolerances within groupings, to include more bullets - say .2 or .3 grain variation instead of just .1 grain? I'm curious how others approach this and what their real-world experiences are in this regard. Thanks!
  
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westerner
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #1 - May 4th, 2022 at 8:57am
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I stopped sorting and weighing bullets a long time ago and started going to more matches instead. The more matches I go to the better my chances of winning one.  

Does that sound logical?  Undecided
  

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art_ruggiero
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #2 - May 4th, 2022 at 9:01am
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that's correct  if you don't go you can't win   art
  
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gnoahhh
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #3 - May 4th, 2022 at 10:39am
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By all accounts Westerner is smiled upon by the Gods (Pope, Shoyen, Petersen, and his late lamented blind squirrel who ran into one too many trees), every time he pulls a trigger. Roll Eyes
  
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JLouis
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #4 - May 4th, 2022 at 11:07am
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I don't think one could be over cautious myself. Accuracy has allot to do with one's own personal confidence in his equipment. It is also directly related to the elimination of as many variables as is possible no matter what they might be. Just importantly when a shot / points are dropped and you put the blame on possibly being a bad bullet you are also possibly not doing enough.
  

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westerner
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #5 - May 4th, 2022 at 11:24am
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Reminds me of the time I was shooting next to a Canadian at Tacoma. Looked over at his target to notice he was not doing all that well. I asked him whats the matter? He said he was shooting reject bullets. I said so am I. He looks at my target then looks at me and says, asshole!   

Shooting matches can be a lot of fun.  Smiley
  

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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #6 - May 4th, 2022 at 12:18pm
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westerner wrote on May 4th, 2022 at 11:24am:
Reminds me of the time I was shooting next to a Canadian at Tacoma. Looked over at his target to notice he was not doing all that well. I asked him whats the matter? He said he was shooting reject bullets. I said so am I. He looks at my target then looks at me and says, asshole!  

Shooting matches can be a lot of fun.  Smiley


Oooooooooooo.  Quote of the day!!
  

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Joe_S
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #7 - May 5th, 2022 at 10:29pm
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For those of you who have not heard the story about Boots Obermeyer:
He decided to create the  "perfect" ammunition. He did everything a reloader can possibly do to create the perfect ammo: weighed and sorted the bullets, (Jacketed High power match bullets) inside and outside reamed the cases, cleaned and swaged the primer pockets, etc. etc. etc. He goes to the next match and shoots a tremendous score, WAY over his average. Everyone is patting him on the back and congratulating him and asking "How did you do it?"

He says " Gather round everyone and I will show you what I did!" He then reaches into his range bag and pulls out the ammo and discovers that what he shot in the match was "reject" ammo, the "perfect" ammo was still untouched on the bag. 
Just goes to show the power of your mental attitude. Having confidence in your equipment is very important. This does NOT prove that being sloppy with your ammo is OK. 
I am still struggling with how "perfect" a cast bullet must be, or how imperfect it can be before the imperfections really impact accuracy. If I live long enough to retire I might have time to do some experimenting. Till then, I am too busy trying to cast "perfect" bullets. 
Joe S
  
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bnice
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #8 - May 5th, 2022 at 10:41pm
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Not perfect but the best I can manage
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #9 - May 6th, 2022 at 4:14pm
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westerner wrote on May 4th, 2022 at 11:24am:
Reminds me of the time I was shooting next to a Canadian at Tacoma. Looked over at his target to notice he was not doing all that well. I asked him whats the matter? He said he was shooting reject bullets. I said so am I. He looks at my target then looks at me and says, asshole!  

Shooting matches can be a lot of fun.  Smiley


Sounds like Bev! 
  
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #10 - May 6th, 2022 at 4:37pm
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Gnoahhh, it seems like you have paid a lot of attention to details. How much better did your rifle shoot with that soft 1 to 30 alloy than with something harder? Back in the Creedmore days factory match bullets were more like 1 to 15.
  
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #11 - May 6th, 2022 at 4:47pm
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Bev who ? 
If you might be referring to  Bev Pinney from Salmo BC and a three time Cast Bullet Association National Champion in the Plain Base Bullet class. Who I was also was very fortunate to compete against in the 2006 National event and in the same class. 
I would find it hard for not only him or anyone else to be able to do so successfully while also shooting reject bullets. 
Back in 1996, 1998 and 2003.
  

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Cbashooter
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #12 - May 6th, 2022 at 4:55pm
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JLouis wrote on May 6th, 2022 at 4:47pm:
Bev who ? 
If you might be referring to  Bev Pinney from Salmo BC and a three time Cast Bullet Association National Champion in the Plain Base Bullet class. Who I was also was very fortunate to compete against in the 2006 National event and in the same class. 
I would find it hard for not only him or anyone else to be able to do so successfully while also shooting reject bullets. 
Back in 1996, 1998 and 2003.


Bev has that kind of a sense of humor. Him and his wife Alta are quite a hoot.
He stayed at my place when he was shooting the CBA matches I was running years back.

  
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JLouis
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #13 - May 6th, 2022 at 5:25pm
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Cbashooter he was indeed one of the very best as far as I am concerned. 
Unfortunately when I was shooting against him at the CBA National Event back in 2006. He would never respond when I tried to have a conversation with him on multiple times.
I later found out that he had some very serious hearing loss and that he was not actually trying to ignore me / or not actually wanting to not converse with me. 
  

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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #14 - May 6th, 2022 at 8:30pm
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Tommy Mason and I shared the same bench in different relays at the 1996 nationals.i got to watch him shoot his .400 ten shot record in just horrible conditions.(it still stsnds)That day and group opened my eyes to schuetzen rifle accuracy. 

And yes Bev is D. E. A. F.  as hell
« Last Edit: May 6th, 2022 at 8:47pm by Cbashooter »  
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JLouis
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #15 - May 6th, 2022 at 8:59pm
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Tommy Mason actually won the national championship back in 1997 and not in 1996. Please forgive me if you are only talking about his group. 
Actually it doesn't even matter other than wanting to keep the year he actually won the National Championship as being correct. 
In 1996 that is when Bev Pinney won the National Championship.
« Last Edit: May 6th, 2022 at 9:04pm by JLouis »  

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Cbashooter
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #16 - May 6th, 2022 at 9:00pm
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JLouis wrote on May 6th, 2022 at 8:59pm:
Tommy Mason actually accomplished that back in 1997 and not in 1996. 
Actually it doesn't really even matter other than wanting to keep the year he accomplished it as being correct. 
In 1996 it was actually Bev Pinney.

Nope ,1996 he shot the record as I didn't shoot 1997.i didn't think you were shooting matches back then John?
I think you misunderstood national champion for  national record.
« Last Edit: May 6th, 2022 at 9:12pm by Cbashooter »  
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JLouis
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #17 - May 6th, 2022 at 9:30pm
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I actually tried to share that confusion on my own behalf. Was that a 200 yard group or one being shot at 100 yards. 
I also apologize for not knowing exactly what was being shared.
  

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Piltdownman
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #18 - May 7th, 2022 at 3:05am
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While casting I.get my mold up to speed casting visually perfect bullets then cast until I have enough .or the bullets aren't coming out just right.
I separate in lots of about 30 or so on my casting mat.
I check weight and dimensions in each "lot" and feel good in the first and last "lots" are spot on.i.do throw visually flawed bullets in the pot as casting.
sometimes I'll weigh them and mark the culls with a sharpie. Red for light, black for heavy.Its nice to be able to shoot the culls and know where they go  rather than just assume they won't shoot.
Its darn rare for them.to shoot any different than my "good" bullets though.

I can't decide if it's worth but if driving a long way for a match it makes me feel better.
I think I loose more shots reading wind poorly than the rare bad bullet in all honesty.
« Last Edit: May 7th, 2022 at 3:10am by Piltdownman »  

If I hear another  millenial use the term "node" or "optimal " at the range I'll scream!!!
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JLouis
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #19 - May 7th, 2022 at 11:19am
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Sorry I missed your prior post stating the yardage and the record. And you are correct I did not start shooting until 1998. CBA Matches used to be our largest attended monthly matches up to about 2009. We would have one or two 2 day regional matches each year so we could setup our moving backers to also be able to shoot groups. That is going to be a hard record to break my best was only a 0.473 and shooting my CPA.Schuetzen Jr. / Model 52 in 32-40 and the high shot was my last and just a bad wind and mirage call on my own behalf. 

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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #20 - May 7th, 2022 at 3:55pm
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John,
That 0.473 group is quite a tight "donut" 
Interesting how that happens. Don't know why, 
when I shoot a "donut"
beltfed/arnie
  
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Re: Perspective on bullet sorting
Reply #21 - May 11th, 2022 at 6:58am
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Back to the original Post....
Weighing to within 0.1 of a grain is pretty darn picky, in my humble opinion. 
for my 32/40, 197 grn I make two groups of within .4 of a grn. For the .38 and the .40 ( 300grn and 400 grn), for 100 yds I sort to within .8 of a grn and for anything over 100 yds I sort to .5 of a grn. 
I have discarded molds that don't throw close to the correct weight. Any rejects, I use as a fouler or barrel warmer. I notice that rejects of over or under 1.0 grn will generally hit the target within an acceptable group. Luckily I have very few rejects. My NOE .32 mold will throw 100 bullets of 20:1 within .2 grn. 
I know very good Competition shooters here who only weigh to within 1.0, that is .25% of a 400 grn projectile.
  
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