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Opinions on "choked" barrels? (Read 7136 times)

Longdistance1 Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 428 Location: Amidon, ND Joined: Feb 11^th, 2013	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #15 - Nov 19^th, 2021 at 6:55pm	Print Post
	A friend of my son's, just barreled up a 32-40 BRC choked blank and is getting quarter sized groups at 200 yds, and is tickled pink LD1 I'm going to order one as soon as i get off my dead ass!


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10624 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #16 - Nov 19^th, 2021 at 9:52pm	Print Post
	FAQs \| Bartlein Barrels We cut rifle virtually any twist into a barrel (subject to tooling etc…). ... in connection with choke bore (lapping choke bore of the barrel), ...

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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AJ Full Member Offline Posts: 138 Joined: Aug 25^th, 2011	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #17 - Nov 20^th, 2021 at 12:02am	Print Post
	Contemplating how a choked bore might be made other than lapping, one thought that comes to mind would be to heat the muzzle end of the barrel before sending the button through. The idea is that the heated end would expand as the button is pushed through, then contract to a choked bore when it cools. I have no clue if this would actually work or not.


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ScrapMetal Junior Member Offline Posts: 75 Location: Nebraska Joined: Aug 21^st, 2019	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #18 - Nov 20^th, 2021 at 1:33am	Print Post
	AJ wrote on Nov 20^th, 2021 at 12:02am: Contemplating how a choked bore might be made other than lapping, one thought that comes to mind would be to heat the muzzle end of the barrel before sending the button through. The idea is that the heated end would expand as the button is pushed through, then contract to a choked bore when it cools. I have no clue if this would actually work or not. That's what I was thinking. While I'm sure it would "work" I am not sure if one could do it accurately and consistently. -Ron


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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 857 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #19 - Nov 20^th, 2021 at 9:52am	Print Post
	Here’s a better way to either choke or taper bore a rifle barrel but the cost keeps most of the barrel makers out of the loop; (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Be sure to check the tolerances possible with this machine. I think Mr. Pope would be impressed.


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art_ruggiero Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1061 Location: CT Joined: Dec 14^th, 2008	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #20 - Nov 20^th, 2021 at 10:13am	Print Post
	the CZ 22 rimfires have under size bores from the factory and are the most accurate rifles in that price point by a long way so maybe tight is good art


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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10624 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #21 - Nov 20^th, 2021 at 11:21am	Print Post
	Hammer forged barrels are not being seen in the equipment lists by any of the top competitors. In any of the various extremely competitive shooting sports requiring the best in accuracy. Nor do they hold any known national records that I have seen to date.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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tim_s Oldtimer Offline Posts: 814 Location: 13066 Joined: Oct 11^th, 2006	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #22 - Nov 20^th, 2021 at 4:55pm	Print Post
	AJ wrote on Nov 20^th, 2021 at 12:02am: Contemplating how a choked bore might be made other than lapping, one thought that comes to mind would be to heat the muzzle end of the barrel before sending the button through. The idea is that the heated end would expand as the button is pushed through, then contract to a choked bore when it cools. I have no clue if this would actually work or not. FWIW, likely not possible and nobody that makes match grade buttoned barrels does it or likely tried it. What you’d probably get is not properly formed lands/grooves. The very process of properly getting a button through a blank requires setup and lots of pressure. That said the very best tapered bore, buttoned match barrels get that way by taper lapping, usually with 1-2 tenths of uniform taper throughout the entire barrel if it is a rimfire blank. Choking is a variation on that theme, I’ve had 6 PPC barrels that only had the last 6” or so tapered so the whole approach has proven results for jacketed and lead slugs. In the RFBR world, anywhere on the planet, you’d be hard pressed to find a custom buttoned barrel ( the vast majority of custom RFBR barrels) that was not taper lapped.

	“ I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you”
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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 857 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #23 - Nov 20^th, 2021 at 9:22pm	Print Post
	JLouis wrote on Nov 20^th, 2021 at 11:21am: Hammer forged barrels are not being seen in the equipment lists by any of the top competitors. In any of the various extremely competitive shooting sports requiring the best in accuracy. Nor do they hold any known national records that I have seen to date. Just as button rifling is an American process the Europeans have hammer forging and used the technique for good use in their accuracy events. It’s all about the operator when the chips are down, how else can one explain the most antiquated rifling process being the the most accurate process.


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AJ Full Member Offline Posts: 138 Joined: Aug 25^th, 2011	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #24 - Nov 21^st, 2021 at 9:48am	Print Post
	I really don’t have any idea if heating the muzzle end of a barrel before running the button through would produce a quality tapered bore in the last few inches of the barrel. But just to add to the conversation, my rough calculations indicate the heat necessary to expand the bore by .0005” would only be about 200-300 degrees for a 40 caliber barrel.


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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 857 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #25 - Nov 21^st, 2021 at 9:56am	Print Post
	rafter3c wrote on Nov 20^th, 2021 at 11:59pm: I am not sure but I thought the Germans came up with button barrel rifling. KL Could have, a large number of mechanical advances come from Europe. Today several American rifle manufacturers have taken up the hammer forged process but so far for high production purposes. Several of the European firms have also reaped the advantages of the high production but also have given hammer forging a place in their target rifles. Be reminded the Europeans place different values on a rifle’s accuracy purposes.


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Premod70 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 857 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #26 - Nov 21^st, 2021 at 11:04am	Print Post
	Back to the OP, I think you are asking a question that has yet not introduced enough data/input due to the barrels not being on the market long enough for a quantifiable statement. My suggestion would be to question the firm on their standards and go from there. I’ve only seen one of their barrels being used at matches and that in itself gave me no reason to make a judgement of their product. Being a geezer with a long list of product failures throughout my life my views are that of a skeptic so I wish you good luck in your choice.
	« Last Edit: Nov 21^st, 2021 at 11:34am by Premod70 »

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Schuetzendave Frequent Elocutionist Offline Retired Ex-Shooter Posts: 3957 Location: St. Albert, Alberta Joined: Jan 28^th, 2005	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #27 - Nov 21^st, 2021 at 12:40pm	Print Post
	Choking means the barrel gets tighter as the bullet travels down the tube preventing gas cutting around the sides of the bullet. That is how accuracy is improved; from the limitation of gas cutting. Some choking is done by lapping the barrel but it is done in steps so there is a bit of a transition between where the steps stop or start. However with the use of single point cutters the transition is continuous resulting in a perfect slope along the inside of the barrel. RKS barrels have a continuous choke of 4/10,000" (0.0004") from the chamber to the muzzle of the barrel. RKS barrels are precision cut with 40 cuts per groove or 320 cuts for my eight groove barrel. And the metal was not stressed by deforming the metal by pushing a button through to create the grooves.
	« Last Edit: Nov 21^st, 2021 at 12:55pm by Schuetzendave »

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tim_s Oldtimer Offline Posts: 814 Location: 13066 Joined: Oct 11^th, 2006	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #28 - Nov 21^st, 2021 at 2:43pm	Print Post
	rafter3c wrote on Nov 20^th, 2021 at 11:59pm: I am not sure but I thought the Germans came up with button barrel rifling. KL Clyde Hart of Hart barrel together with Mike Walker of Remington developed button rifling as it is known today.

	“ I don’t have to be faster than the bear, I just have to be faster than you”
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10624 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Opinions on "choked" barrels? Reply #29 - Nov 21^st, 2021 at 5:27pm	Print Post
	In one of my ongoing discussions with Barry Darr. He was telling me that the interior of the Hart barrels where the best that he had ever seen. Unknown to some he was very close to several of the barrel makers at the time. He also visited their own barrel making means and methods to help to further to perfect his own. What is unusual outside of the CBA Heavy Class where they set several records several years back. And they still stand and over the past 23+ plus. I have not see them being used in our Schuetzen Plainbase Breech Seating Benchrest competitive sport.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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