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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) J. Stevens Marksman Rifle (Read 13164 times)
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #30 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 8:55am
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General consensus across several forums is this is indeed chambered for .22 K Hornet. I have found you can get K Hornet dies but there was an earlier comment about 'neck sizing' and I have found there are indeed (2) versions of the die sets one for full length sizing and one for neck sizing. Till now I have only reloaded straight wall cartridges 45LC and 45-70 can someone explain the difference between full length sizing and neck sizing and is there a preferred version for the K Hornet?

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #31 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 10:03am
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Do you know of a resource that explains how to set up this scope properly?

No, unfortunately, I don't.  Belding & Mull were very good about documentation, however.  Therefore, you can hope to find a copy of the user's guide that came with the scope.  Ebay, for example, has several dealers in gun-related ephemera and paperwork that might be able to help.  Another possibility is the Belding and Mull Handbook.  That relatively common booklet was updated regularly and more or less covers all of B&M's products at the time.  My guess is that the scope was made between 1935 and 1950, or maybe a little later.  But before you buy one, it would be wise to ask if that particular copy has the information you need.

Lastly, if when you tested the rifle it seemed at least reasonable accurate, unless you wish to shoot at other considerable different distances, I'd say leave the scope as is.  The close-ups of the gun's breech indicates to me that the 'smith who built that outfit knew what he was doing and how to do it well.  Therefore, I'd wager you can safely assume that he mounted the scope properly too.

In short, just always shoot reasonable loads and enjoy your rifle.  And when you decide to sell it, give me, MrTipUp, first shot (bad pun intended).

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #32 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 11:33am
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MrTipUp wrote on Nov 8th, 2020 at 10:03am:
Do you know of a resource that explains how to set up this scope properly?

No, unfortunately, I don't.  Belding & Mull were very good about documentation, however.  Therefore, you can hope to find a copy of the user's guide that came with the scope.  Ebay, for example, has several dealers in gun-related ephemera and paperwork that might be able to help.  Another possibility is the Belding and Mull Handbook.  That relatively common booklet was updated regularly and more or less covers all of B&M's products at the time.  My guess is that the scope was made between 1935 and 1950, or maybe a little later.  But before you buy one, it would be wise to ask if that particular copy has the information you need.

Lastly, if when you tested the rifle it seemed at least reasonable accurate, unless you wish to shoot at other considerable different distances, I'd say leave the scope as is.  The close-ups of the gun's breech indicates to me that the 'smith who built that outfit knew what he was doing and how to do it well.  Therefore, I'd wager you can safely assume that he mounted the scope properly too.

In short, just always shoot reasonable loads and enjoy your rifle.  And when you decide to sell it, give me, MrTipUp, first shot (bad pun intended).

Bill Lawrence


Thanks Bill, I'll check out the suggestions you made. I wasn't necessarily thinking of making any changes to the mount but more about how to adjust windage/elevation front and rear to zero in the scope itself. The mechanism is quite complex.

As for 'first shot' when I decide to sell it - you got it. I'm assuming you are in the US and I'm in Canada so not sure how easy that will be.

Thanks Again
Roger
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #33 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 11:39am
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I'd neck-size using the full-length sizing die.  In setting the dies in the press, simply set them so there is about 1/8" (3mm) of space between the sizing die and the shellholder when the press is at full stroke.  To verify, darken the neck and shoulder area of case with a Magic Marker, and run it through the press. Part of the neck the ink will be rubbed-off where the case made contact with the die.  There will be a clear ring above the shoulder where no contact was made.  This is good.  The unsized portion will hold the case centered in the chamber, improving accuracy.  The sized portion will grip your bullet.  This assumes you will be shooting jacketed bullets. Cast bullets need one more step, which is to open the neck back up a wee bit so the bullet doesn't get distorted by the force needed to seat it. You are probably already doing this for your 45-70.  Tiny .22 bullets are much more sensitive about this.  
  

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #34 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 12:33pm
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There are a few early improved Hornet chambers, the K won the popularity contest and is most widely used now with available off the shelf dies. The difference is body length and taper, shoulder angle and neck length. Easiest way to sort it out is shoulder diameter and neck length.

I have the KE version which has less taper, larger diameter shoulder. To resize I use a Redding neck only die adjusted to only size 3/4 down the neck. Even set this way it will reduce the shoulder diameter .003” and also partially down the body. 

It would be worth it to measure your fired brass and compare to K Hornet specs.
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #35 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 3:15pm
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uscra112 wrote on Nov 8th, 2020 at 11:39am:
I'd neck-size using the full-length sizing die.  In setting the dies in the press, simply set them so there is about 1/8" (3mm) of space between the sizing die and the shellholder when the press is at full stroke.  To verify, darken the neck and shoulder area of case with a Magic Marker, and run it through the press. Part of the neck the ink will be rubbed-off where the case made contact with the die.  There will be a clear ring above the shoulder where no contact was made.  This is good.  The unsized portion will hold the case centered in the chamber, improving accuracy.  The sized portion will grip your bullet.  This assumes you will be shooting jacketed bullets. Cast bullets need one more step, which is to open the neck back up a wee bit so the bullet doesn't get distorted by the force needed to seat it. You are probably already doing this for your 45-70.  Tiny .22 bullets are much more sensitive about this.  


Thanks, really appreciate the specificity of your description.

Roger
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #36 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 3:16pm
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Thanks Dellet appreciate you taking the time to post the images.

Roger
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #37 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 3:39pm
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Welcome to the world of precision reloading.  A worthy obsession that will gratify the mind and deflate the bank account.  How are you fixed for reading material? Lots of good books and web sites to occupy your every waking hour.  Especially if you fall down the casting rabbit-hole.  If you don't have the Lyman handbook, get it now.  Also Lee, Hornady, and McPherson. First and foremost, study up on tools and techniques.  The "recipe list" handbooks can come later.   

  

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #38 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 10:45pm
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I wonder if it is possible that the gunsmith threaded that receiver tube and the barrel and screwed it in? 
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #39 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 11:25pm
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Considering the thoughtful way he modified the firing pin set up, I also wondered if the barrel was now a "screw job".  Not that the owner shouldn't still shoot only light Hornet loads.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #40 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 11:26pm
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Crossed my mind, too.  Would only have to thread the outermost 1/2 inch or so, and the thread would have to be pretty fine.  I would have.
  

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #41 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 1:00pm
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Over the last week pulled bullets on about 40 .22 Hornet cartridges - dumped out the powder and replaced with 2g of Trail Boss re-inserted the bullets with a very light crimp.

I also got out the screwdrivers and set the front and rear mounts for the scope as low as they would go and used my digital micrometer to center the scope in the front and rear rings.

Last night I took it to my local indoor range.

Of the (40) rounds I had, 5 got stuck in the barrel. Those that fired initially were about 3" high and 3" left at 7m and 5" high and 5" left at 9m. I took (2) full turns of the elevation screw for the front mount which put me right on line with the bullseye but still 3" to the left at 7m. At this point I opted to call it a night.

Conclusion I should probably stick with 3g or higher for the Trail Boss, although I have to admit the problem could have been with the primers as the bullets I dismantled were a donation and of indeterminate age. Right now I am waiting on a couple of press parts and and some cast lead bullets so I can build some from scratch using the fire-formed brass I now have. Looking forward to getting back out there with this rifle.
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #42 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 3:37pm
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Not primers.  The charge is definitely too low.  2 grains might work with a cast bullet, and you might get 1100 fps.  Obviously jacketed bullets require much more pressure to engrave.  3 grains is indeed more like it. Quickload says 13,000 psi, and my thrust calculator says ~740 pounds-force, which is right in line with the .25 Stevens rimfire, which was one of the common chamberings for the Marksman. 
  

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #43 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 6:27pm
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B & M scopes discussed in detail ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #44 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 7:43pm
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uscra112 wrote on Dec 1st, 2020 at 3:37pm:
Not primers.  The charge is definitely too low.  2 grains might work with a cast bullet, and you might get 1100 fps.  Obviously jacketed bullets require much more pressure to engrave.  3 grains is indeed more like it. Quickload says 13,000 psi, and my thrust calculator says ~740 pounds-force, which is right in line with the .25 Stevens rimfire, which was one of the common chamberings for the Marksman. 


Thanks for the confirmation , must appreciated. 

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