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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) J. Stevens Marksman Rifle (Read 13163 times)
uscra112
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #15 - Nov 7th, 2020 at 5:07pm
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T/C Contenders have a tendency to stretch the frame when fired repeatedly with cartridges too energetic for them. When that happens the headspace opens up.  The two guns having such a similar layout, I'd expect the Marksman to do the same.

I once fired an 80,000 psi double charge in a .25-20 Model 44.  Once.  It didn't blow up, but that doesn't show that the rifle is safe or sane with heavy loads.
  

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #16 - Nov 7th, 2020 at 6:04pm
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Thanks for the comments folks, just to be clear according to the seller statement from the auction the conversion was done by a professional gunsmith. That said given the preponderance of comments I will definitely be working with my own reloads from now on. I have been researching online since my earlier post and seeing a lot of good comments around Trail Boss 2.0 to 3.8g under a 40g bullet using small pistol primers (rather than small rifle primers). I also reload black powder 45-70 so bp is an option for me. I've already ordered a set of dies.

See attached pics for info on the commercial bullets fired through the gun today.

Retreever

PS the price tag is in CAD, it would be about $45USD
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #17 - Nov 7th, 2020 at 6:08pm
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Do those fired rounds look like they came out of a K-Hornet to anyone else?
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #18 - Nov 7th, 2020 at 6:14pm
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Beat me to it.  Yes, absolutely a "K" Hornet.  Must use "K" Hornet dies.

My Hornet Contender with the stretched frame (bought it that way, unknowingly) I had to ream out to the "K" case so it could headspace on the shoulder.  Headspacing on the rim was about .010" over the spec.  Did this "professional gunsmith" know something about what he'd created?  Leading to it being sold? 
  

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #19 - Nov 7th, 2020 at 6:30pm
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uscra112 wrote on Nov 7th, 2020 at 6:14pm:
Beat me to it.  Yes, absolutely a "K" Hornet.  Must use "K" Hornet dies.

My Hornet Contender with the stretched frame (bought it that way, unknowingly) I had to ream out to the "K" case so it could headspace on the shoulder.  Headspacing on the rim was about .010" over the spec.  Did this "professional gunsmith" know something about what he'd created?  Leading to it being sold? 


Unfortunately all I have is the sellers statement from the auction that says the conversion was done by a "professional gunsmith" as for the reason for selling it was part of a collection that was being auctioned off. What's the significance of your comment re. K hornet and headspace. I'm complete newbie.

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #20 - Nov 7th, 2020 at 6:56pm
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The original Hornet case has a very shallow taper, really no shoulder at all.  It was designed to headspace on the rim.  If the headspace grows even a little, the case has a disappointing tendency to stretch in the body and separate, often in a few as 2 or 3 firings.  Lyle Kilbourne designed a modification to the chamber that let the case be fatter in the body and have a sharp shoulder.  His intention was to get a little more powder into the case, but a secondary benefit is that the case can now headspace on that shoulder, just as rimless cases do.  No more case separations due to excess headspace at the rim!   The beauty of the thing from the user standpoint was/is that tocreate the new case you just fire an original case in the modified chamber.  Which is why the cases you extracted don't look like the cases you loaded in.  

When you order dies, order "K" Hornet dies, and when you use them be sure not to push that shoulder back when sizing.  The cases as they came out of your rifle are a perfect fit to the chamber, and you don't want to upset that.  Neck size only.
  

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #21 - Nov 7th, 2020 at 9:36pm
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The good thing is that shooting the factory ammo in the K-Hornet chamber lowered the resulting pressure due to the larger case. Whatever you do, don't use K-Hornet reloading data in the now K-Hornet brass. Stick with the 22 LR or light 22 Mag levels and enjoy it.
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #22 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 12:09am
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As to the value of your scope, with only pictures to go by, here's my opinion.  It looks to be in fine exterior condition and complete.  Since you put 50 rounds through the rifle - and got away with it, you very lucky man - I presume the optics are clear and the crosshairs are intact and not loose or deformed  If all that's true, I'd say the scope is worth at least $300 and could easily be worth up to twice that.  It does look good on the rifle.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #23 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 1:40am
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Been nagging me - would you show us a closeup of the standing breech face with the action open?  It looks from the rear like he may have done something tricky with the firing pin.  Along the lines of the Mann-Niedner modification for Winchester High Walls, maybe.  

Just have to add - I see nothing shoddy about the job that that anonymous gunsmith did.  Just unwise, unless he had in mind to use only his own handloads that would not overstress the action, and failed or wasn't able to pass that limitation along when he passed away.  We're constantly reminding each other about that as we talk about mods we do ourselves.   You've got a lovely little piece there, just keep the loads within reason and enjoy it.    
  

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #24 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 2:39am
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Hey retreever, I said they would know on here and be able to tell you all you need to know Smiley
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #25 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 4:47am
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MrTipUp wrote on Nov 8th, 2020 at 12:09am:
As to the value of your scope, with only pictures to go by, here's my opinion.  It looks to be in fine exterior condition and complete.  Since you put 50 rounds through the rifle - and got away with it, you very lucky man - I presume the optics are clear and the crosshairs are intact and not loose or deformed  If all that's true, I'd say the scope is worth at least $300 and could easily be worth up to twice that.  It does look good on the rifle.

Bill Lawrence


Bill, thanks for the info, the optics are clear however it does not have crosshairs but rather a single post. Do you know of a resource that explains how to set up this scope properly?

Thanks, Roger
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #26 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 4:51am
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uscra112 wrote on Nov 7th, 2020 at 6:56pm:
The original Hornet case has a very shallow taper, really no shoulder at all.  It was designed to headspace on the rim.  If the headspace grows even a little, the case has a disappointing tendency to stretch in the body and separate, often in a few as 2 or 3 firings.  Lyle Kilbourne designed a modification to the chamber that let the case be fatter in the body and have a sharp shoulder.  His intention was to get a little more powder into the case, but a secondary benefit is that the case can now headspace on that shoulder, just as rimless cases do.  No more case separations due to excess headspace at the rim!   The beauty of the thing from the user standpoint was/is that tocreate the new case you just fire an original case in the modified chamber.  Which is why the cases you extracted don't look like the cases you loaded in.  

When you order dies, order "K" Hornet dies, and when you use them be sure not to push that shoulder back when sizing.  The cases as they came out of your rifle are a perfect fit to the chamber, and you don't want to upset that.  Neck size only.


Thanks for the explanation, I was getting a bit confused. I thought the ammo had been labeled incorrectly by the manufacturer because the box clearly says .22 Hornet. Will definitely order k-Hornet reloading dies.

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #27 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 5:44am
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uscra112 wrote on Nov 8th, 2020 at 1:40am:
Been nagging me - would you show us a closeup of the standing breech face with the action open?  It looks from the rear like he may have done something tricky with the firing pin.  Along the lines of the Mann-Niedner modification for Winchester High Walls, maybe.  

Just have to add - I see nothing shoddy about the job that that anonymous gunsmith did.  Just unwise, unless he had in mind to use only his own handloads that would not overstress the action, and failed or wasn't able to pass that limitation along when he passed away.  We're constantly reminding each other about that as we talk about mods we do ourselves.   You've got a lovely little piece there, just keep the loads within reason and enjoy it.    


See attached pics , best I could do.

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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #28 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 6:08am
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Yet Stevens did use the Marksman action for the 101 featherweight .44 shot shotgun. There seems to be quite a few of these little guns around for only being made a few years,I've seen quite a few for sale,I guess most people don't know what to do with them. What scares me more than a .22 hornet Marksman,would be one of the .44 shot guns being rechambered to .410,which I've heard of,I can envision the barrel being launched down range,since the barrels on these only being held in place by the take down screw. I've seen a few of the 101 .44 shots with a .32 rimfire barrel on it making it a .32 colt,or rechambered to .32 S&W.
  
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Re: J. Stevens Marksman Rifle
Reply #29 - Nov 8th, 2020 at 6:32am
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I've got three of the Model 101s, that I've acquired over the last 20 years.  One has indeed been rechambered for the .410 shell.  My guess is that it wasn't shot much.  The recoil in such a light gun would be . . . . discouraging.

Retreever's pics further convince me that the gunsmith bored deep into the face of the standing breech and inserted a "capsule" containing the firing pin.  Only necessary if converting a Model 12. 

All this has me thinking of barrelling a 101 for the .25-20 Stevens (Single Shot) which when loaded to 1500 fps. with a 65 grain cast bullet has a calculated bolt thrust of about 650 lbs., considerably less than that .38 Special target load.  If only I had a .25 rimfire barrel that wasn't a sewer pipe.  Undecided
  

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