Another picture

Redsetter wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 12:17pm:



Thank you!!!  Do you think it’s safe to shoot 22 LR or should I stick with 22 shorts? Thanks again!

waterman wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 12:35pm:


If so, the trigger has been replaced--no 47 was ever fitted with such an ugly thick trigger.  And though 47s had a loop-lever, this one is--how shall I put it?--coarse looking; just not up to Stevens' quality standards.

Receiver 

Watchnguns wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 1:30pm:


I take it you’re not a fan of my 22.  j/k [/quote]

I'm not a fan of ANY mass-produced repro, if, as I suspect, that's what it is; if you'd ever had a Stevens 47 in your hands, you'd know what I'm talking about.  Even the modern and well-made Savage Favorite repros are clunky compared to the originals.

However, as a plinker, it may be as good as any; although any unmarked gun should arouse one's suspicions as to quality.   

Watchnguns wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 2:14pm:


Nobody except Savage after they bought out Stevens about 1920.

The lack of markings makes me wonder if it could be of foreign-origin, and some of the South American countries like Brazil have produced numerous knock-offs of US-designed guns; however, those imported into the US are usually marked.   

I don’t think it’s a Stevens.  Ledball

frnkeore wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 3:21pm:


Thank you!!

An old Stevens it is not.  I am curious about the mainspring.  Is it a flat spring like a 44 action or a coil spring with a push rod like a 417?  The stock must be removed to find out for sure.  Although pulling the trigger on a fired case might give a clue.  A coiled mainspring will probably give a stiff trigger pull.  A flat mainspring may be a bit easier.

Whatever the source of the reproduction, it is what it is.   I would try it with some sort of standard velocity Long Rifles at 100 yards, off sandbags & a stiff bench.  If the bullets go through the target at an angle, try it with Shorts.

A little history on this gun...this elderly lady’s husband had passed away and she brought 12 guns to the neighborhood gun store. I ended up purchasing all 12. I ended up paying about $70 per gun so I don’t think I got stung too bad. 

I purchased the below in addition.
1 Winchester Model 12
2 Stevens 22/410. 
1 Ithaca 37
5 black powder revolvers
1 IJ 38 
1 NAA 22

frnkeore wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 5:11pm:



Thanks Frank!!  Not sure how to resize pictures. I’ll have to ask my teenagers when they get home. 

I'm really curious as to the origin of the rifle.  I've never seen anything like it.  Could it be a home workshop project?

Watchnguns wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 4:51pm:


The Stevens/Savage over & under is a nice item, esp. if it's an earlier one.  I had one with the 20 g. brl. about 50 yrs ago and thought very well of it...until someone stole it out of my truck.

Redsetter wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 5:28pm:


The quality of the gun is not terrible, seems to be on par with most of the other guns I have. I’ve never handled a Stevens 44 so can give a comparison. Also I believe the medallion on the pistol grip was added by the original owner.  Several of the guns I purchased had these. Thank you!

Redsetter wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 5:33pm:


That’s terrible that someone stole your gun. The Stevens 22/410 are neat guns.  One of them is stamped USAF on the receiver which is cool and probably bumps the value a little. Thank you!

Watchnguns wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 6:19pm:


More than a little, I suspect, if it's one of those purchased by AF during WW II for use as survival weapons by aircrews shot down in enemy territory.  These guns had plastic stocks, which were used when they were being made by Stevens before the war.  Those made by Savage after the war used wooden stocks.

Watchnguns wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 6:26pm:


But even us know-it-alls find it hard to keep track of guns produced in foreign countries for native usage, which might account for lack of markings.  My wild guess would be Latin America, as even the cheapest-made US guns sold by hardware stores, mail-order catalogs, etc., were given some kind of markings.  Can't believe it's a home-workshop project, either.

Redsetter wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 7:20pm:


It’s just crazy that I can’t find anything on it.  I’ve google copy, reproduction, no markings etc. and have come up empty.  You would think if it was produced in any sort of numbers, I’d find something. The mystery of it is intriguing to me.

From the peculiar color and the general fit and finish, I'm inclined to say that's a heavily reworked Stevens 44. Tang trimmed to allow the pistol grip, spring moved to allow the trimmed tang, enough material removed from what was probably a badly pitted surface to disappear any markings. Small parts were probably all re-made from scratch. This definitely has the looks of advanced mid-century home workshop gunsmithing. 

Watchnguns, if that one top tang screw is the only thing that secures the action to the stock, be careful not to let it lever itself apart, as that's definitely be a weak point in the redesign. Pushing down on the wrist of the stock while pushing up on the muzzle could likely bend or break that tang. If you're shooting from the bench, you probably shouldn't lean too hard on it with your cheek.

Marlene wrote on Jan 14^th, 2018 at 9:24pm:


Stevens rcvrs. had no markings on the sides until Savage assumed control after 1920.  But this rcvr. does exhibit a stamped number on one side, so it hasn't been ground down to remove pitting; and even if it had been badly pitted, there would have been no need to obliterate the Stevens model no. markings on the front face of the rcvr.  The forearm stud on the front face of the rcvr. isn't Stevens either, nor the lever & trigger. The upper tang isn't D&T for a tang sight, as all Stevens-made rcvrs. were. 

Hard to get the scale from the photos, but if it’s a 44, it’s an old model, with screws instead of bolts for the block and lever.

I would guess, from the screws and the wide hole that used to hold the takedown screw, that somebody took an 1894 Favorite receiver and block, adapted a 1915 Favorite hammer and trigger to fit, cut or dressed the lower tang off (removing the code or serial number thereby), welded a Stevens lever top to a Marlin lever action lever (or maybe copied the whole thing; from the bluing, it’s all real steel rather than malleable iron), adapted a Marlin 39 buttstock to fit, (maybe) made the forend out of matching wood, repositioned the mainspring to the top tang, mounted a scope on the side, rebarreled it and responsibly stamped a new serial number (or maybe the old code number) on the side to satisfy the ATF people.

Does the buttplate say “Stevens” or have a scrolled “S” on it?  Or does it say “Fajen” or “Marlin” or maybe nothing?  It looks to me like a pretty impressive example of home-shop work; even admirable in some respects.  That locating stud on the front of the receiver for the forend is actually a good idea.  Is there a metal block in the top of the grip to fit the one screw left on the upper tang?  I would think that the builder would have done something like that to ensure the integrity of the buttstock fitting as well.

My first gun-building effort started with a 94 Favorite action, a scrounged barrel and a walnut board from Austin Hardwoods.  It taught me a lot about Single Shot riflesmithing.  There’s some inherent Coolness in that model that induces amateurs to bring them back from the junk pile.  If the local specialist with the buffing wheel and the bluing tanks didn’t exactly know what he was doing, well, that’s the luck of the draw.

All speculation, of course.  How does it shoot?  If it closes up tightly, Standard Velocity LR should be OK.  Avoid Hi-Speed.

Bent_Ramrod wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 9:54am:


Wow....this is why I posted this here.  If someone could help identify it, it would be you guys. There were no markings/letters on the but plate.  I think whoever built this was fairly good, not a hack job like I’ve seen with some guns.  I did not pay much attention to the stock when I removed it, but I did notice a brass sleeve was used on the foregrip for the locating stud...which is a little detail.  When I get home this afternoon I’ll take some more pictures.

Here are a couple more pictures I took yesterday. Sorry in advance for the size.  I don’t know how to reduce them.

While you are taking pictures, please make some measurements.  Action thickness, somewhere between the slab sides.  Then a measurement from the action face to the point where the upper tang meets the rear of the action.  Also please measure the thickness of the loop lever.  And the thickness (width) of the hammer.  And maybe the spacing of the screws that hold the block in place.

I think some measurements will tell us whether we are looking at a modified 44 or a Favorite or whether this is something else entirely.  I don't have a Favorite to measure, but I will measure a Stevens 44 action today.

waterman wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 12:24pm:



Ok, I do this when I get home. Thank you!!!

The hand-stamped numbers 619740 on the side must mean something.  I have 3 Stevens with 44 actions.  All have 5-digit SNs.  I don't know about Favorites.  Any idea if they might be the part of the SSN or phone number of the guy who died?  Would the widow know if her late husband was the maker?

Receiver 

Hammer

Receiver

Chamber

Watchnguns wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 6:40pm:


They scare me!  First send photos to a photo-hosting service like Imagur and then they will be resized automatically.

Could it be some sort of prototype or one off factory custom?  I shares a similar loop lever as this custom “range” model.

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Redsetter wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 7:08pm:


Right click on the image with your mouse. Then click on "open link" and it will reduce them to full screen size. I do it all the time with images posted here. Takes a couple seconds to do. 
When done looking, hit the "backspace" key and it returns you to the post.

The dimensions are all consistent with a Favorite. The lever is either scratch made or shop made loop welded to the original lever stub.

It is a not badly done build, the only shortcoming being the short bottom tang and its inherent weakness compounded by the addition of the sling.

Watchnguns wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 7:39pm:


Now that lovely item is a Stevens No. 47 built on the 44 frame!  (Same model later made on the improved 44-1/2 frame.)  Compare the lever, trigger, and other details, to see how crude, comparatively speaking, are the same parts of this "unknown."

Redsetter wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 8:24pm:


I was not trying to compare the quality more the aesthetics (I.e. loop)  I also find it hard to believe this was a garage project. Jmho

Watchnguns wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 8:40pm:


I wouldn't classify it as a garage project. It is fairly apparent that the hammer, trigger and lever are shop made or modified, not of Stevens origin while the receiver is. Such work is well within the skills of a tool & die maker.

Watchnguns wrote on Jan 15^th, 2018 at 8:40pm:


You and me both!

Did the original Favorites have serial numbers?  If so, is the number on the side  within the range for Favorites?  Might the maker simply have stamped the Favorite SN on the side of the action when he cut off the lower tang?

waterman wrote on Jan 16^th, 2018 at 1:26am:


Only the very early ones.  By the early 1900s so many had been produced that the numbers stamped on them pertained only to the batches in which they were mfgd.

Today I took the gun out and shot it.  I put approx 25 shorts through it and about 10 long’s. All seems to be fine from a firing standpoint. Seemed to group nicely with both rounds.