Frank great post, Charlie was looking for smaller extreme spreads buy use of a wad. I would have to  go back and look at what he came up with to be certain. I know he determined that either having the powder oriented at the front of the case or the back of the case that he saw a decrease in extreme spreads and an increase in accuracy. There was a slight decrease noted in regards to velocity in feet per second when the powder was oriented at the mouth of the case in comparison to having the powder oriented at the back of the case. I believe a wad when placed properly to allow the powder slump does provide an advantage. Charlie would at times use a wad off the powder and another one at the base of the bullet and he also felt that showed a slight increase in accuracy as well. The wad at the bullet base is something I have had great success with and the purpose for its use is to protect the base of the bullet.

Again thanks for your positive and valuable input on chamber ringing.

J.Louis

I am a rank novice in the SS rifle "game" so have no bush to pee on here. Recently I have read Mr. Dell's writing including that on the subject of chamber ringing. In fact his book is open to the chapter, at hand as I write this.

A method used in science and engineering to demonstrate almost immeasurable changes caused by whatever is to use a method by which the changes are much greater and more easily measurable. This is the combination of Mr Dell's annealed brass chamber 10 grains of Bullseye powder charge (which burns almost entirely within a cartridge case).  Inquiring minds here are already aware of thes things. 

To be fair, there is in the paragraph beginning "Other possible solutions..." on page 343 of THE MODERN SCHUETZEN RIFLE which reads "Certainly the strength of the modern barrel steels would have prevented ringing in all but the most aggravated circumstances." Considering the use of brass chambers and old soft steel barrels I concede the probability of outcomes of Mr Dell's experimenting. I DO NOT recall ever having read in any of the many discussions on this subject on this forum Mr. Dell's own caveat regarding barrel steels which I have quoted above. A man of Mr. Dell's education, knowledge and experience would have known that the ringing effect depended on the relationships between generated forces (i.e. chamber pressures), yield strength and modulus of elasticity of the barrel/chamber material in use. BTW, NOT an argument with anyone, just comments. 

Quote:



hi Don --  Thanks for adding these important points which seem to have been overlooked (or not know) by the other gentlemen who responded.  Of course, the other possibility is that a few did know these points, but intentionally left them out.

I am wondering what is your understanding of the level of education that Mr. Dell possessed at the time he did his chamber ringing analysis?  I would deduce that a very comprehensive background in the subjects of "Strength of Material" and "Metallurgy", both theory and practice, is necessary for one to opine on the subject/s with authority.

Again, you make very interesting and positive points for consideration.

  CMM

.

I met Charlie Dell only a couple of times - at Society of Manufacturing Engineers meetings.  He was WELL respected in that community for his tool & die expertise.

So,John, if I disagree with Charlie, will I definitely go to hell?
Even about his twist formula?
joe b.

JLouis wrote on Oct 29^th, 2012 at 8:12pm:

Joe B
Nothing to do with Charlie, it has to do with your relationship with your creator and the acceptance or rejection of this son.

J.Louis

This thread has me thinking about what happens to a filler and within a case during the milliseconds a powder charge burns. I'm leaning toward thinking what happens may not mesh with all the conjecture. A for-instance that comes to mind is why does toilet tissue not burn up within case or barrel when used as filler, being as easily ignited as it is. I think it has to do with the heat generated during the burn time of the powder charge.

That is a excellent question! Since air temp increases at the rate of 2 deg for every 1lb it's compressed, it would seem, even at our low pressures of + - 20,000 psi that 40,000 deg of temp would disintegrate tisue paper in a instant. I do know that it's in a oxygen depleated chamber. Even so, it seems odd it would come out in as good a shape as it does and that goes for most if not all materials used that way.

Frank