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Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley (Read 80828 times)

rkba2nd Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1841 Location: earth Joined: Feb 16^th, 2009	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #120 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 2:18pm	Print Post
	I am assuming Steve meant using black powder. But of course he was and is a good promoter. I would hate to see people building 22 PPC's on Ballard actions.

	rkba2nd
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11337 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #121 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 3:11pm	Print Post
	Premod70 wrote on May 3^rd, 2020 at 8:54am: I guess one thing that hasn't been stated is black powder has an absolute maximum pressure that will not surpass the yeild limits of quality steel. Smokeless will easily wreck any rifle designed whatever the steel composituon. When all the single shot rifles were designed years ago only black powder was available and the designs for the most part were safe in that timeframe. Then here comes smokeless and the various designs began to fail to no fault of their own rather the lack of respect of the potential dangers in loading smokeless whatever the action. Know the actions strengths as well as the powder's capabilities and all is well but it's some folk's nature to push the limits and disaster is their educator. How the reloading business manages to stay in business is a marvel to me when so many have it in their genes to learn the hard way. They should be commended for there efforts. I did a little study few years back Must have been ten or twelve blown up rifles. Turned out it was about 50 50 smokeless VS BP. BP will and does blow up rifles. Shooters find differing ways to do it, but they do do it. Scheutzenmeister and I know an individual with part of a digit missing from blowing up a Shiloh Sharps with BP. One of the ways to blow up a rifle with smokeless is to double charge it with reduced loads. One of the ways to blow up a rifle with BP is to fire it with a barrel obstruction. Reloading equipment companies are still in business because reloading incidents are rare. If you can find a statistics, compare with car death statistics.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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JLouis Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 10625 Joined: Apr 8^th, 2009	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #122 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 3:18pm	Print Post
	Agree on the safety factor being built in and why they are proofed with a load that they should never encounter as part of the inspection process before they are sold. Some act as if every BP cartridge powder rifle is on the ragged edge of wanting to explode I personally don't believe that to be true. I also believe there was a comment in regards to back in the day only BP was being used. But if memory serves right DuPont Schuetzen Smokeless powder was also very popular at the time. And also being sifted by JohnDKelly for use in his 38-72 Kelly Pope Ballard rifle according to his hand written load data included on some of the groups he shot. Pope considered Kelly to be the dean of benchrest shooting and a competitor who was difficult to beat. One would think if Pope was overly concerned about Kelly blowing up his Pope barreled Kelly Ballard his load data would have been different than what was being published and being used.

	" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #123 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 3:32pm	Print Post
	rkba2nd wrote on May 3^rd, 2020 at 2:18pm: I am assuming Steve meant using black powder. But of course he was and is a good promoter. I would hate to see people building 22 PPC's on Ballard actions. I do not recall the caliber but it was described as a smokeless test to intentionally blow it up if it would yield. There are other reasons to not use a Ballard for high pressure calibers. Gas venting in case of case failure would be at the top of my list. Antique action designs have many consideratoins. A good reason to not use the 73 Winchester is the bolt lockup. I don't want to lose an eye During the ammo shortage a few years ago I shot one of the off breed brands of foriegn cheap garbge .22 LR ammo in my Ballard .22 for offhand practice. When the first case ruptured I thought it might be a fluke. The second time I felt the gas I returned the ammo. Full refund when I mentioned cases rupturing

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3763 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #124 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 3:36pm	Print Post
	The only time I had some 22 rupture was with Eley 10X. It does get your attention.


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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1564 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #125 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 3:51pm	Print Post
	Anybody that can't blow up a Ballard isn't trying very hard.

	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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oneatatime Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3763 Location: Rocky Mountains Joined: Oct 30^th, 2011	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #126 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 4:29pm	Print Post
	Assuming a modern barrel and receiver ring would hold, what would be the first thing to go?


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #127 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 5:40pm	Print Post
	oneatatime wrote on May 3^rd, 2020 at 4:29pm: Assuming a modern barrel and receiver ring would hold, what would be the first thing to go? I can't remember his name but a fellow at Raton split the breach block. The head of the screw hit the shooter on the adjacent bench by his eye. The blow up guy went home, made a new screw and shot the next day.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3858 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #128 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 9:09pm	Print Post
	Let me add another bit of information regarding failures. the picture is of the breech of a bronze cannon. Yes, I lit the fuse (back in 1964). If you look carefully, you will see darkened areas of fracture around the 1" bore. This is where it had fractured before it exploded likely many years prior. (you see the same kind of darkening in hydraulic fittings that fail).

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15804 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #129 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 10:18pm	Print Post
	Jeff_Schultz wrote on May 3^rd, 2020 at 3:51pm: Anybody that can't blow up a Ballard isn't trying very hard. Do you have a bunch or even a few documented cases?

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Rebel Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4292 Location: Rockets and Race Cars Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #130 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 10:32pm	Print Post
	Anybody that can't blow up a Ballard isn't trying very hard. I've blown up well over 100 guns and I can tell you no gun is hard to blow up. Aaron

	WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. Let's Go Sonny!
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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #131 - May 3^rd, 2020 at 11:56pm	Print Post
	marlinguy wrote on May 3^rd, 2020 at 10:18pm: Jeff_Schultz wrote on May 3^rd, 2020 at 3:51pm: Anybody that can't blow up a Ballard isn't trying very hard. Do you have a bunch or even a few documented cases? I know of at least 3. Terry Savage blew up a nice one at Springfield with a 2x charge. It was easy to remember if you sat at the wrong bench. The hole in the roof dripped on your rilfe when it was raining. The split breech block mentioned above at Raton. There was one more that I do not recall the circumstances. They do let go

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11337 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #132 - May 4^th, 2020 at 1:02am	Print Post
	I almost blew one up with a over length case fixed ammo round. Cracked the side of the frame. 32-40 BP. Here's one that was blown up into two neat pieces, again black powder.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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Premod70 Oldtimer Online Posts: 858 Location: North Carolina Joined: Jan 16^th, 2016	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #133 - May 4^th, 2020 at 9:28am	Print Post
	westerner wrote on May 3^rd, 2020 at 3:11pm: Premod70 wrote on May 3^rd, 2020 at 8:54am: I guess one thing that hasn't been stated is black powder has an absolute maximum pressure that will not surpass the yeild limits of quality steel. Smokeless will easily wreck any rifle designed whatever the steel composituon. When all the single shot rifles were designed years ago only black powder was available and the designs for the most part were safe in that timeframe. Then here comes smokeless and the various designs began to fail to no fault of their own rather the lack of respect of the potential dangers in loading smokeless whatever the action. Know the actions strengths as well as the powder's capabilities and all is well but it's some folk's nature to push the limits and disaster is their educator. How the reloading business manages to stay in business is a marvel to me when so many have it in their genes to learn the hard way. They should be commended for there efforts. I did a little study few years back Must have been ten or twelve blown up rifles. Turned out it was about 50 50 smokeless VS BP. BP will and does blow up rifles. Shooters find differing ways to do it, but they do do it. Scheutzenmeister and I know an individual with part of a digit missing from blowing up a Shiloh Sharps with BP. One of the ways to blow up a rifle with smokeless is to double charge it with reduced loads. One of the ways to blow up a rifle with BP is to fire it with a barrel obstruction. Reloading equipment companies are still in business because reloading incidents are rare. If you can find a statistics, compare with car death statistics. Not trying to turn this into a pissing contest but I like to know more about the Shiloh Sharps incident. Hard for me to grasp one of those rifle's actions coming apart with black powder. Years ago I witnessed a fellow load smokeless loads up to the point of the breech block locking up the action. Time after the breech block was hammered open as he tried various powders to find the maximum loads for the 50-90. The rifle is still in use today firing such loads. I would not dare to fire one but as I stated before some folks can't rest until they have bettered common sense. I can see a possible rupture of the barrel with black but the action behooves me.


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11337 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: Ballard Action Blow-up at the Quigley Reply #134 - May 4^th, 2020 at 10:30am	Print Post
	Barrel obstruction. The preceding bullet didn't exit the barrel. Dave loaded another round pulled the trigger and burst the barrel where his hand was holding the barrel. When a barrel blows up, it's a blown up gun.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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