Or is it a sling swivel?    Joe.

PS to my last:  One of my many VA brethren who associates with those funny rifles from across the pond (the ones that are shaken, not stirred!   ) suggested that the doodad in question might be for one of the British type sling swivels that looks kinda like a hook for a shower curtain...an open loop with a pointy end to fit through a hole in that little stud.  He suggested that one way you might be able to identify it as such is to note whether there are any British proof marks evident?

Froggie

Well guy's on another look it begins to look to me like that may just a stud hanging out of the wall that the Rifle is hanging on to take the picture. The back end is not fully in the picture so cannot tell if there is another one back there. What we need is for Ed to take a picture of the bottom of the forend so we can really see what is going on there.
FITZ

Hello Ed,

What you have there in the picture is an factory original Second variation high-wall Winder Musket. 

The Second variation Winder Muskets (WM) were authorized in December of 1911 (and as such, they are all coil-spring actions and will have the superposed WP (in oval) proofmark on the top of the frame ring and on the barrel just in front of the rear sight).

The barrel mounted rear sight is a Model 1901 Springfield Krag windgauge, and it was standard on all Second variation WMs. 

Production of the Second variation WM ran from December 1911 - early 1918 (serial range 111,000 - 122,000). The vast number of the early Second variation WMs were chambered for 22 LONG R., with the remaining few being chambered for 22 Short. Towards the end of the production, it was a 50/50 split between the two cartridge chamberings. There were at least two Second variation WMs that were made up as 25-20 W.C.F.  (centerfire), but they were not cataloged (special order).

Even though the Winder Musket frames were not heat treated, they are still exceptionally strong.

Out of curiosity, could you please post the website address that you found the pictured WM on?

Regards,
Bert

p.s. I have a considerable amount of researched data on all three Winder Musket variants

Quote:


Hello Ed,

Thank you kindly for the information and web address.

Your Second variation Winder Musket was made in the latter part of 1917. The sideways "A" behind the tang denotes that it is a coil-spring action. Winchester manufactured approximately 7,200 of the Second variation Winder Muskets.

Bert

Quote:


Madis' book is full of errors, and many of the Model 1885s he has pictured in his book are NOT factory original. 

Winchester never listed the low-wall as ever being available in 32-40, but apparently a very limited few may have been made up as a special order, using the early first variation (panel-sided frame with a special order no. 3 barrel). There were also a very limited number made up real late in production (Schuetzen configuration) using the Model 87 Winder Musket frame.  I personally do not recommend that a second variation low-wall frame ever be used for the 32-40 cartridge... regardless of what velocity/pressure that you load it to.

Out of curiousity, how did you get a first variation centerfire breech block to fit and function properly in a second variation rimfire? Does it still have a centerfire firing pin in the breech block?

Bert 

[quote author=Bert_H. link=1168686763/45#56 date=1170363534Out of curiousity, how did you get a first variation centerfire breech block to fit and function properly in a second variation rimfire? Does it still have a centerfire firing pin in the breech block?

Bert 
[/quote]

Bert, all wall CF breechblocks will fit & function fine in all wall frame sizes, ditto the RF ones. The only differences, besides the shaping of the top rear of the blocks, are the lengths top-to-bottom and the presence/absence of the holes for the coil mainspring. The only functional difference in the frames is the presence/absence of the machinings for the RF ejector spring and the coil-vs-flat mainsprings. IOW I've (temporarily) used the block from a high wall in a low wall & vice versa, also switched CF with RF blocks in the same frame. Have used flat-spring blocks with coil mainsprings by drilling two holes for the spring legs. The almost 100% parts exchanges that are permitted are one of the things that make the walls so great!
Regards, Joe