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40/85 Ballard (Read 14104 times)

4570sharpshooter Junior Member Offline Posts: 61 Location: Scheller,Illinois 62883 Joined: Aug 25^th, 2006	40/85 Ballard Aug 25^th, 2006 at 10:51pm	Print Post
	I am new to the forum, but not new to single shot rifles. I have a few rifles that I shoot ,but have a couple that are problems. My main problem gun is a new production Ballard 40/85. This is a beautiful gun that destroys cases. I have annealed the necks ,but about every third case has a split neck. How far down the case do I have to anneal? My other options are to rebarrel or rebore. I will pull a bullet to check the powder charge, but it was I am sure that it is not maxed. This project was put on the back burner due to the split case problem, over a year ago. Any help will be appreciated. 4570sharpshooter

	Keep yer eye on the target son.....
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MartiniBelgian Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1650 Location: Aarschot Joined: Jun 7^th, 2004	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #1 - Aug 26^th, 2006 at 3:11am	Print Post
	4570, What brass are you using? It could be a brass issue, as I doubt your chamber would be oversize that much. Some of the 'rarer' brass sometimes isn't up to spec, giving such problems. I f you get neck split, a neck anneal should normally solve your problem. I would start with using brass from a different manufacture.


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J.D.Steele Ex Member	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #2 - Aug 26^th, 2006 at 10:29am	Print Post
	Bertram brass sux. IMO you'll do better with ANY other brand. Anneal back about 1/3 of the case body, IOW at least 3/4" or so. Good luck, Joe


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J.D.Steele Ex Member	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #3 - Aug 26^th, 2006 at 10:32am	Print Post
	Forgot to mention trimming & chamfering the necks. Any roughness or irregularities at the case mouth can quickly lead to split necks. HTH, again good luck, Joe


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blackpowdermax Ex Member	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #4 - Aug 26^th, 2006 at 3:43pm	Print Post
	sharpshooter.....I shoot an old #5 in 40-85 Ballard and use 3 different case types with no split necks. For bullets cast in old original molds (.403-.406") I use Everlasting cases from Rocky Mountain Cartridge. Much thicker wall. For more modern molds (.408-.410") I use cases made from 40-90 Basic brass by Buffalo Arms. I can't get the Everlasting cases to chamber with modern bullets because the chamber is too tight. Also have some original UMC cases that I also use (found a glass jar full of them at a gunshow believe it or not) and they seem to be in the middle of the other two for wall thickness. I have had a couple of case separations, probably from cases being too long or oil/lube in the chamber, but no split necks. All of this was with black powder loads. If you think your chamber may be oversize, Dave Casey from Rocky Mountain Cartridge will make cases that fit your chamber exactly from a chamber cast. Almost all of my old Ballard cases come from him and I have had very good luck. By the way, the 40-85 Ballard is my favorite cartridge. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) max


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4570sharpshooter Junior Member Offline Posts: 61 Location: Scheller,Illinois 62883 Joined: Aug 25^th, 2006	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #5 - Aug 27^th, 2006 at 9:20pm	Print Post
	Thanks to everyone who took time to reply. I will consider my options , and let you know of the outcome. Hopefully everything will work out .4570sharpshooter

	Keep yer eye on the target son.....
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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 3914 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #6 - Aug 29^th, 2006 at 9:50pm	Print Post
	BPMax, have you tried the new Hornady .405 brass in your original #5? I got a bunch and it chambers but the rim is too thick for the breech block to close. Meanwhile the .40 BELL Basic I scored will require full length sizing and perhaps some trimming as well before I even know whether the rim will make it or not...So I keep shooting .45-70 in a high-wall! I'd love to have the specs off a chamber cast from your #5 as mine seems a little strange in a couple of dimensions, including the big groove diameter which approaches .412!! Nevertheless, I DO have a big bore, DST original Ballard now! Froggie


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blackpowdermax Ex Member	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #7 - Aug 30^th, 2006 at 9:46pm	Print Post
	Froggie.....I've never tried the 405 Winchester brass, thought it might be too short and by hook or crook I have managed to get a decent supply of 40-85 brass so didn't have the need. My bore slugs out at .408" but unless everything is just perfect, I can't get a .408" diameter bullet to chamber even with the thinner brass mentioned. I usually take the newer mold bullets and run them through an old Ideal hand sizing tool that brings them down to .406" diameter and then I'm good. I use really soft lead, so it bumps up. Lately I've been using mostly paper patch so don't have to worry. I use a standard 2-15/16" case and have no problems there. I did a chamber cast quite awhile ago and it confirmed the .408" groove. Sent it to Dave at RMC when I had my cases made. When I bought this thing, I dug deep and bought a RCBS full length die set. Don't use them much to load, but the full length sizer has come in handy a couple of times. I use the old tong tools to load, either Winchester or Ideal. If you have some cases that need sizing, be happy to run them through the die for you. I'm pretty sure it's not worn out yet. I take it yours is a #5 also......would love to see a picture. These old boomers carry a bit too much black powder in a 40 caliber to be target rifles, but they were made for hunting and do that well. max


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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 3914 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #8 - Aug 30^th, 2006 at 9:54pm	Print Post
	Max, Thanks for the quick reply. Just so I don't get accused of hijacking the thread, I'll send you a more thorough PM with pix in the next day or two. My #5 conforms to Marlin/Ballard specs but the numbers don't all match. I'm glad to hear you can do reloading for these with a tong tool...is that a standard "large" tong tool or an old #3 or something oversized? Froggie


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blackpowdermax Ex Member	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #9 - Aug 30^th, 2006 at 11:59pm	Print Post
	Froggie....you're right about the thread. 4570sharpshooter, sorry if we went off on a tangent. The tong tool is a Ideal #6 in 40-85 B. It is a large frame #6 because of the size of the cartridge. Bullet weighs 330 grains. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) max


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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 3914 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #10 - Aug 31^st, 2006 at 9:09am	Print Post
	Lust, lust, lust! That tool looks like the next thing I'll just HAVE to have! Sorry I asked now! Froggie


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MikeT Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 293 Location: St. Cloud, MN Joined: Sep 7^th, 2005	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #11 - Sep 3^rd, 2006 at 10:44am	Print Post
	I, for one, would be interested in seeing a picture of the spit case. Keep on hhav'n fun!


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drc Full Member Offline Posts: 174 Location: Norton Joined: Mar 5^th, 2005	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #12 - Sep 8^th, 2006 at 10:09pm	Print Post
	you really should have the chamber checked. I just had to have a rifle from a well respected <but unnamed firm> rebarreled under warranty as something happened to the reamer and the chamber was cut .010 over the high side of tolerance <i own 3 other rifles from the same firm and the chambers are match quality tight> so before investing in new brass I would check the chamber and rule in or rule out a variable my cases were blown out into a "tulip" shape that was visible. things can and do happen when working with metal


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Green_Frog Frequent Elocutionist Offline "It ain't easy being green" ASSRA Life #281 Posts: 3914 Location: Lynchburg, VA Joined: Apr 18^th, 2004	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #13 - Sep 17^th, 2006 at 9:21pm	Print Post
	Hey BPMax, here's that picture of the #5 you requested (finally!!) As stated, it is just a plain old Pacific with matching numbers except for the barrel and fore end (numbered together) and the butt plate. Enjoy! Froggie


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blackpowdermax Ex Member	Re: 40/85 Ballard Reply #14 - Sep 18^th, 2006 at 8:29pm	Print Post
	Hi froggie......I like it, I like it. Never met a Ballard I didn't like. Just curious, is it a 30" barrel or 32"? And distance across the flats at the breech and muzzle? Mine is 32" and has a fairly heavy barrel, the gun weighs a little over 12 lbs. Tends to slow you down a bit when hunting, and that might be a good thing. Good you have that one, it's only the 3rd one I've seen outside of Dutcher's book and they don't seem to come up for sale very often. Thanks for the pic..... max


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