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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) German Target rifle info needed More pics (Read 10294 times)
huntgrouse
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German Target rifle info needed More pics
Mar 27th, 2006 at 8:06am
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I recently aquired this rifle. Have no real idea what it is. I would also like an idea on its value and possible market to sell it.   
I would appreciate any input, advise.
Can some one give me an approx. value?

no external hammer. The triggerplate drops out of it when you trun the lever at back of guard tang.

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« Last Edit: Mar 27th, 2006 at 7:19pm by »  
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Brent
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Re: German Target rifle info needed
Reply #1 - Mar 27th, 2006 at 8:43am
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I haven't a clue, but it looks like a Martini with a hammer!  What is that thing in the back of the receiver.  It disappears in the second shot but looks sorta like a hammer in the first one.  Damn, a hammer martini - now that would really be interesting.   

Brent
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: German Target rifle info needed
Reply #2 - Mar 27th, 2006 at 9:37am
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I believe this is a Zeller_Martini variant, complete with cleaning hole at the rear of the receiver, and easy-takedown breechblock.  And yes, these usually have a (internal) hammer
  
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Brent
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Re: German Target rifle info needed
Reply #3 - Mar 27th, 2006 at 9:45am
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Internal doesn't count!    Undecided

Brent
  
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gunsbrad
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Re: German Target rifle info needed
Reply #4 - Mar 27th, 2006 at 12:40pm
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Isn't a Martini with a hammer a Peabody?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Brad Hurt
  
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Brent
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Re: German Target rifle info needed
Reply #5 - Mar 27th, 2006 at 1:59pm
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Yeah, and I know of one I would like to buy if the gunshop would ever take it off the wall.

Brent
  
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AkMike
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Re: German Target rifle info needed
Reply #6 - Mar 27th, 2006 at 2:51pm
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I'll bet that tab is a cocking indicator of some sort.
  
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Cknerr
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Re: German Target rifle info needed
Reply #7 - Mar 27th, 2006 at 3:19pm
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With that rear sight base and the engraving, I would say an Aydt. They are tricky beasts... but also very accurate (usually), made by Haenel (speeling?) I will try to photograph the front end of the one I have at home to show you. 

In most cases the rear sight is missing. There is also one pin holding the tigger assy' and butt stock to the receiver. Be careful


Chris
  
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leadball
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Re: German Target rifle info needed
Reply #8 - Mar 27th, 2006 at 5:31pm
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huntgrouse:  This is a German Schuetzen rifle --Martini action-internal hammer-the knob seen on the left side is the take-down pin--remove this pin and the breechblock is removable to clean the rifle from the breech. Its not an Aydt--the Aydt is not a Martini type action.    leadball
  
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AkMike
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Re: German Target rifle info needed
Reply #9 - Mar 27th, 2006 at 6:33pm
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LEADBALL, 
You're right but what is the tab sticking out as shown in the first pic in the middle of the rear of the breech block?????
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: German Target rifle info needed More pics
Reply #10 - Mar 27th, 2006 at 9:23pm
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DEFINITELY not an Aydt..

That projection you see is the tail end of the breechblock of the martini action. With the breechblock in place, it covers the slot in the reciever that allows cleaning the bore from the breech end.
The breech block can be removed easily, and that slot allows a cleaning rod to pass.

That rifle is what a local collector gentleman callls a "Swiss-style" Schützen Martini. Lucky booger has about 5 of 'em... 

As for "approximate value"... well.. the gentleman in my gun club that introduced me to these here single-shootin' rifles says that the rifles he has (of the same sort, mostly fairly simillar) go from $1500 to $2500. Depending on various things known to collectors.
It would not be unusual for you rifle to be chambered in 8.15x46R (but may also be chambered in other cartridges).

Put it on gunbroker or auctionarms, with a $1500 starting bid, and I think you'll like what it goes for.

heck, if it had a left handed stock, I'd send you $1800 for it right now Smiley

It's really a very nice rifle!
You might consider getting dies/brass for it and shooting it rather than sell or trade it off!

Paul F.
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: German Target rifle info needed More pics
Reply #11 - Mar 28th, 2006 at 2:29am
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Gunsbrad,

It only is a Peabody when there is a mule's ear sticking out from the side of the thing - the decent ones usually have an internal hammer, and the really good ones are striker-fired  Grin
  
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gwahir
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Re: German Target rifle info needed More pics
Reply #12 - Mar 28th, 2006 at 11:02pm
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Martini with an internal hammer? I would love to see a drawing or picture of the inners of such a critter!
  
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hst
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Re: German Target rifle info needed More pics
Reply #13 - Mar 29th, 2006 at 1:28am
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Gentlemens:

I have to respectfully disagree with Mr. MartiniBelgian.

The hammer is the only attractive feature of the Peabody. What they should have done is left the hammer on the outside and hid the rest of the action on the inside.

Glenn
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: German Target rifle info needed More pics
Reply #14 - Mar 29th, 2006 at 1:28am
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Most of them were actually Zellers, but the Swinburn was also a Martini variant with internal hammer, so they are out there.  I don't have the Zeller patent handy, but you can find the Swinburn patent here:
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JDSteele
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Re: German Target rifle info needed More pics
Reply #15 - Mar 29th, 2006 at 10:51am
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I own a Field's Patent Sidelever Martini rifle (large) with what appears to be an internal hammer. I haven't disassembled it yet so am not sure of the exact internal configuration, but will take a look soon and post pictures if possible.

The Field's Patent Sidelever rifles are apparently quite rare. I've seen pictures of their sidelever falling-block action in the de Haas and Grant books, and have even seen one example up close & personal, but have so far seen not even a picture of their sidelever Martini action. Apparently it's even rarer than the falling-block model.

So many Martinis, so little.......................
Regards, Joe
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Field patent rifle...
Reply #16 - Mar 30th, 2006 at 1:52am
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Joe,
If you don't want to take it apart, just check this pic:
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Or alternatively, all the related pages on my website...
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But you'll notice it is of the "true faith", and is striker-fired.
  
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JDSteele
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Re: German Target rifle info needed More pics
Reply #17 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 12:54pm
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MB, I took my rifle apart (without any major malfunctions, amazing!) and found that it does indeed have an internal hammer. It's substantially identical to the later examples shown on pages 3, 4 and 5 of your website details, except my rifle has a pistol-grip lower tang. It's by far the most-ergonomically designed Martini I've seen, with the trigger comfortably set well to the rear and a very well-designed side safety lever as shown on the patent drawings. What may at first glance appear (in the drawings) to be a striker spring is actually, in the case of my rifle and the second example shown on your website, a firing pin retractor spring.

My rifle was originally made in cal 577/500 Westley Richards no. 2 Express but has been converted to 22LR with a Parker liner and target sights. It could be restored to original but the task would be difficult. The original highly-figured English walnut sporting buttstock is still present but the original forearm has been replaced and various other alterations have been performed. Too bad.

It's just another 'someday' project rifle to me, I've thought about restoring it but will probably either continue to shoot it or try to sell or trade it for something else. I've got too durn many project rifles as it is, need to consolidate some of 'em and finish some of the projects.

Many thanks for showing the patent detail drawings, you are indeed a gentleman.
Regards, Joe
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: German Target rifle info needed More pics
Reply #18 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 1:03pm
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Joe,

That's what I made the website for - to make information available to other people.  So you have the variant with the V-spring and hammer, nice...  Would be even nicer in the original round indeed!  Most Martini-style rifles can be made (or were) into very handy and light sporters, and that one would make a fine big-bore hunting rifle.  Just don't forget the express sights!
It alctually has quite a few similarities to the Swinburn-Martini, also very nice...
  
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gwahir
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Re: German Target rifle info needed More pics
Reply #19 - Apr 1st, 2006 at 11:42pm
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Mr. Martini
I, too, want to thank you for your web site. Excellent information.
  
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