First it might help to know what you're already doing. I assume (!?!?!) that you're using a single case and that you're orienting it the same way for each shot. I also assume (there's that word again) that you're orienting your bullets in the chamber/case as well, via a mark in the mould or some such.

I try to mark the position and number each impact point on a target kept at the bench. Occasionally have identified a 'walking' bbl as well as peculiarities in my bench technique that would cause a particular shot in the series to go astray. For instance if the last shot in each series is the flier, that would indicate to me that perhaps my lube was failing or that I was anticipating the recoil since it was the last shot, etc etc.

But your groups seem pretty darn good to me. Unless you have a similar flier in every group, it may be what aviators call "Just one of those things."
ttfn & good luck, Joe

Joe,
  Yep! All your assumptions are correct. I have my bullets marked, as well as the seater, so the bullet is oriented into the throat as perfectly as possible. Even tho I use one case I also have that marked so it can be oriented in the chamber. This might be over kill, but it makes me happy. 

  Like you I usually keep track of which shot takes a trip outside the group. In this case it was the 2nd and fourth, respectively. The foulers go onto a separate target and are number to their target so I can see how far out it is from the group and if I need more than one from a clean gun or after changing targets. I do all this on the 6 bull target so it's pretty easy to check things when I want.

  I probably should have kept track of the velocity of each flyer to see if it was the high or low MV, but didn't. Something to keep track of tomorrow.

  Like you say. It could very well be one of those things, altho as close as the SD's are, I'm tending to think it's either some fault of the load, or me! Dew point was very high today and had to keep dusting the rear bag so the gun wouldn't stick.

Jim,
  Now there is an interesting idea. When I proposed this idea of "lube purging" on a BP List a few years back I got laughed at. I pretty well proved to my own satisfaction that this does happen, and like you will leave some lube grooves empty to see what happens.

  The problem here tho is that I am bump swaging the bullet and as such if the lube grooves aren't full this will tend to collapse it. I suppose I could try clearing off a groove or two after swaging to see what happens.

  Good idea and worth a try. Thanks!

PETE

Martin,
 I guess the saying that you can't have to many windflags out is true. I'm not discounting the wind, or mirage catching me out to lunch. But, I would have expected the shot to be to the right instead of up, since both the little wind there was, and mirage, were running to the right. I also don't expect to repeat that 4 shots in .179 either. I put that down as all the errors running to the same spot, till that flyer.

 Today I thought I'd try altering the seating depth. Since the 14.4 grs. of 4227 gave the best overall group I did that first so as t ouse it as a bench mark. As you'll recall that load shot 3/4" yesterday and today shot 7/8" with a flyer at 4 o'clock. That seating depth was 1/16" ahead of the case and engraved about 1/2 the base band. Increased the seating depth by 1/32". Group was the same 7/8" but two shots were out at 1 o'clock. Figured that might be the wrong way to go, so decreased the seating depth by 1/32" from the original 1/16". The 14.4 gr. load shot into 3/4" and it's pretty hard to say there were any flyers. Last target I dropped the powder charge to 14.2, and that gave a 5/8" group. Three into one hole and two slightly high. Again, it would be hard to say there are any flyers in the group.

 Tomorrow I think I'll try an alloy of 1-20 and see if that tightens things up a bit. If that doesn't do it then I'll try Jim's lube idea.

PETE

40_Rod,
  To answer your questions.

#1 - Yes the bullets are pan lubed before swaging. The cast bullet is tapered and all the bump die does is straighten every thing up and square the base to the sides, and make sure the base edge is nice a sharp.

#2 - A possibility for sure, altho the bumping almost erases the mark. I always mark the moulds. Maybe a bad habit! I think Mann pretty well proved that you can do just about anything to the nose of a bullet without loss of accuracy, but the base has to be as perfect as you can make it.

#3 - This is on the agenda. Possibly Friday if things don't show improvement tomorrow with the 1-20 alloy. From what I read in the CBA's magazine they have one guy who swears that he can shoot bullets with no lube at all, and at MV's approaching 2500 fps., and not getting any Leading. Flyers that can be attributed to the lube are definitely caused by lube purging.

#4 - This could be a cause to that I'm not ruling out. GWarden will be shooting with me tomorrow and between us we ought to have enuf flags!  Both of our flags are made with surveyors tape so even the slightest air movement will show up. The problem our range has is that the 50 yd. berm is at 9 o'clock and the prevailing wind is from 7 to 10 o'clock, so we never discount that the wind might be playing with us.

PETE


PETE

40_Rod,
  You don't know how we pray for a nice flat range that will allow a steady breeze to flow across it. The local range is pretty good if the wind is from 1 to 3 o'clock. It usually get all the flags going in the same direction and showing the same force. Where we hold ourt matches has the 25, 50, & 00 yd. berms to the prevailing wind side. A couple of the guys can shoot pretty good there but the rest of us are still trying to figure it out.

  Well, if nothing else I found out something today. Don't shoot within 10 ft. of a wall! Have set up on this bench before and couldn't figure out why, when I did, the groups would go all to pot. Finally dawned on me today that maybe it would create the same effect that Mannfound when extending a board out under the muzzle of the gun. Moved over a coupla benches and the groups came back in. Of course this was after I'd shot up half my bullets for the tests today so will have to repeat tomorrow.

  GWARDEN tried out reducing the lube by one groove and maybe when he gets done doing the measuring he can put in his opinion on what he found. Star on the muzzle still felt greasy so it would appear as tho there's still enough lube present.

PETE

Dale53,
  The lube I use is Steve Garbe's SPG. Has worked very well on everything I shoot, both black and smokeless, from .22 to .50 cal. The velocities I'm running in with the Schoyen/Ballard have been running from 1390 to 1440 fps, depending of course on the load..... 14.0 to 14.6 grs. IMR 4227.

  I also like Javelina's alox/beeswax, but have found over the years that it doesn't work well below 60 degrees. I've taken SPG down to 35 degrees with no loss of accuracy.

  I want to save decreasing the amount of lube I use till toward the last of the load development. Not because I don't think it won't work, if needed, but more to my bullet leaving a very light amount of lube at the muzzle as it is. Barely enuf to be able to tell it feels greasy when wiped off.

  Not sure where I first read of lube purging, but might have been something Tom wrote. Made sense to me at the time, so thought I'd try it with my BP shooting. Since I'm mostly a target shooter with that powder, and wipe between shots, I wondered if I really needed all the lube that the "dirty" shooters seem to think they need. I found that in my .45/70 using the Lyman 457125 and SPG I could decrease the amount of lube by two grooves with no Leading and increased accuracy from what a full load gave. Strangely enuf with the right load it even worked well in the NCOWS Buffalo match where you shoot 25 rounds in 10 minutes, and didn't experience any Leading there either, or loss of accuracy from what I'd been getting with a full load of lube. Trying the same method in my .50/90 using either a 575 gr. Brooks, or the NEI/Gunn 605 gr. bullet with SPG I found I needed to have all the grooves filled or else I got a small amount of Leading, and some loss of accuracy.

  So, we also have to look at the design of the bullet as being a factor in whether or not you can decrease the amount of lube. The bullet I'm using was made by my gunsmith, but follows pretty closely Barnett's .32 cal. 200 gr. design. If you are aware of this design you'll know it has very narrow/shallow grease grooves. So altho lube purging might be a problem it can be considered pretty low on the probability scale.

PETE

Pete 
I think that the purging problem is when the bullet movement overtakes the lubes ability to apply itself to the inside of the bore. Soft lubes do not present the problem that hard lubes do. It is only when the bullet squeezes up faster than the lube can spread then we get a stutter in bullet something has to give and if the lube won't then the lead has to. So mabey the answer isn,t that we need less lube what we need is either softer lube or slower speeds. 

40 Rod