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Purdey
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Stock stain
Yesterday at 8:54am
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What is your preferred commercially available stain for a highly figured black walnut stock for a Winchester High Wall?
  
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Skalkaho
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Re: Stock stain
Reply #1 - yesterday at 9:27am
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I dont use stain on a nice piece of wood. I get it down to A fine  finish then soak in Daly's Sea Fin Oil for a day. Will  waterproof the wood and does bring out the color in the wood.try it on a scrap piece...Wait a couple days to to dry then start your hand rubbed finish been using it for over 20 years in my wood working.Learned it from another wood smith...
« Last Edit: yesterday at 6:59pm by Skalkaho »  

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Jonathan
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Re: Stock stain
Reply #2 - yesterday at 9:38am
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I don't know why you would want to use a stain on a highly figured piece of walnut. Stains can be dangerous because once they are applied you'll go through hell to remove them. You can't really spot test them on a stock unless you have a test piece of the same wood. Different wood gives different results even in the same species. Many of the old gun makers used varnish and this is fine if properly applied and it can be removed if necessary. The best finish for a nice piece of walnut is without a doubt a rubbed linseed oil finish. This takes time but remember that you'll be looking at it for a long time so it's worth the effort. You can read how this is done from dozens of sources but one thing to remember above all else is DON'T BUY HARDWARE STORE OR BOX STORE CRAP.  High quality linseed oil and finishes can be had through specialty woodworking sources and artist's supply companies. I could extol the virtues of an oil finish all day but ask yourself this, why are oil finishes used by the best gunmakers in the world? Does your stock deserve less?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Stock stain
Reply #3 - yesterday at 11:26am
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The only "stain" I've ever used on a Winchester stock was the Tapaderas N35 Red. It's unobtainium now, and I covet the last bottle I have, and thin it to make it go farther. It needs thinning anyway as it's so concentrated it turns wood far too red if applied straight.
On really high quality wood I don't use any stain. It just hides all the gorgeous figure in the stocks.
  

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bobw
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Re: Stock stain
Reply #4 - yesterday at 12:45pm
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I agree, don’t use stain on fancy black walnut, it will just muddy it.  At times I see nice black walnut with just finish and it is kind of plain and flat looking, with no depth to it.  Black walnut can be beautiful when done to highlight its figure.

Some times colorants are needed, I use dyes which do a better job of penetrating into the wood rather than laying on top.

The goal with figured walnut is to darken what I call short grain, which is end grain rising up into the side of the stock.  The curl in curly maple is a good example of this.  Just using finish does not always accomplish this.

Each piece of wood usually requires a different process.

Here are three examples of figured black walnut.  One of California English.

The first has a couple coats of red oil then finished with oil but not linseed oil.  I believe this one is Chambers oil.

The second has dyes applied and still not what I wanted.  I used yellow, black and a brownish/red dyes.  Then finished with oil.  I started with Chambers but finished with Timberlux.  I don’t use Chambers any more because of swirls I get when hand rubbing it, it drys to fast.  They are very hard to remove.

The third has a couple coats of red oil then Chambers and final finished with Timberlux.

The last is the English with several coats of red oil and finish totally with Timberlux.  It has 17 coats of finish.

As you can see, in each rifle the darker grain is the short grain, which takes the colorant more aggressively, and become darker than the surrounding wood.  This along side the lighter, long grain, is what give the beautiful depth to the wood when finished.

I’m not saying this is the correct or only way, just how I finish wood.
Bob
« Last Edit: yesterday at 12:51pm by bobw »  
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bobw
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Re: Stock stain
Reply #5 - yesterday at 12:59pm
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Here is one more I thought I better show.

It has several coats of red oil. 4 if I remember correctly.  I have found black walnut takes color faster or deeper than english.  Because of this, black can get too dark quickly.  This stock is darker than I would like because of this.

But it really shows the darkening of the short grain.
Bob
  
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AJ
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Re: Stock stain
Reply #6 - yesterday at 2:00pm
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I really enjoyed posts by Jim D on the Marlin forum while he was still active.  His shared knowledge on color case hardening have been often referred to on this forum, but in another of his posts he described an interesting method for staining walnut.  That post can be found at:  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

  
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Old-Win
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Re: Stock stain
Reply #7 - yesterday at 6:29pm
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Purdey,
Most gun builders and stockmakers have their own idea as what to do with a piece of wood after they have it fit and sanded.  Each piece of walnut is unique unto it self. You will have to let the wood speak to you but I find that there are very few pieces that have that rich look that don't need some kind of color added to it. If you start with a clear oil as a finish it may get what I call the "dead look".  Kind of a sandy brown without that rich quality.  All the old gun makers used a stain of some sort and many actually had the stain in the finish.  I have about a dozen small bottles of stain mixed up that I use, depending on the wood.  Most of them are based on mixtures of water stains that I got from Brownells years ago.  I also use some of the NGR's but hate them but they are a necessity some times when your trying to blend two areas together.  If you don't like the outcome,they are very penetrating and hard to remove without deep sanding.  If you do use an NGR, dilute it well so as you add the stain, it won't darken too fast.
If you're trying to duplicate an old stock like Winchester, they actually used two stains on their high quality stocks. First, a pore filling stain along with a lighter stain to give the wood that honey gold look.  Almost every stock I build, I've used some different technique
An English walnut stock with water color stain only to give it a caramel color.
« Last Edit: yesterday at 6:49pm by Old-Win »  
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