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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Joseph Singer Rifle (Read 2918 times)
bobw
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Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #30 - Sep 1st, 2026 at 12:24pm
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calledflyer wrote on Aug 31st, 2026 at 12:22pm:
looking better and better. but, of course it does, always.
I'd like to ask how, from the earlier post, did you mill that depression into a surface that humps up and down on the inner face of the butt plate. I can only imagine straight lines on any milling I ever had done. Engine blocks are supposed to be flat and that kind of up and down is eliminated- end of my knowledge.



I think this is the picture you are referring too.  This is also the only picture I took showing the feature you are asking about.

The plate was still attached to the larger piece of steel when I machined the depression.  It’s not as clean looking as it appears in the photo, after all, I just wanted to remove some of this center section so it would make fitting to the wood easier.

I mounted it facing up in the mill and took just sections of it at a time.  It’s only around .050 deep at most.  I simply started first by milling the center section flat.  Then moving each way tipping the plate and milling flats until I  got to the ends.  I did it in 3-4 movements of the plate.  I also had the online laid out and while machining the flats cut to that line.  So the machining isn’t smooth but has shallow facets.
Hopefully this is a good explaination.
Bob
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #31 - Sep 1st, 2026 at 4:01pm
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Thanks for answering, Bob, and the explanation is a clear picture of how you did it. I figured it was done while the whole block was still together, but it just looks like it's a smooth 'swoopy' contour like you might find on a casting or something. 
I like what you make and the process is amazing, but nowadays I wonder how long it will be until we begin to see such things done with the amazing printing processes out there. Adios, tradition. And craftsmen like you that are already pretty scarce.  Smiley
  
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bobw
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Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #32 - Sep 1st, 2026 at 5:40pm
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calledflyer wrote on Sep 1st, 2026 at 4:01pm:
Thanks for answering, Bob, and the explanation is a clear picture of how you did it. I figured it was done while the whole block was still together, but it just looks like it's a smooth 'swoopy' contour like you might find on a casting or something. 
I like what you make and the process is amazing, but nowadays I wonder how long it will be until we begin to see such things done with the amazing printing processes out there. Adios, tradition. And craftsmen like you that are already pretty scarce.  Smiley


If I only knew CAD, I could definitely draw this out, and size it to  print a patterns.  Then send the pattern away for casting.  Not sure I would live long enough to start learning CAD now though!
Bob
  
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bobw
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Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #33 - Sep 1st, 2026 at 6:33pm
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Photo 1.  I think this is as far as I will go on this buttplate shaping for now.  Although, looking at this picture, the ends of the tangs appear still too large and I will need to shrink them!

I have the area between the tangs mostly rough shaped.  I like to have this close to being done before I drill any holes for the plate screws.  It's easier to figure screw head thickness and slot depths with this being shaped.   

I also have the circumference of the base shaped.  This gets me to the point where I can install the buttplate and still make any minor shaping adjustments, once the wood is in place.   

Photo 2.  A better picture of the bottom of the base and the recessed area we were talking about in the earlier post.  Like I said, not as pretty as it looked in the other picture! Embarrassed

Also can be seen is the shape of the base circumference.  This is also the shape of the wood stock at the buttplate, so it's important to be correct.  I use a hand drawn pattern to lay this out, but in the end I finish shaping by eye.  I keep hoping my eye sight is not fooling me to badly!

Photo 3.  The buttplate laid out on the drawing, just to be sure it is correctly shaped.  I like a smooth transition from the wood through the buttplate tangs.

Photo 4 and 5.  These show each side and the smooth lines I am looking for before installing.  Any irregularities need to be fix.   

In the last picture, the red arrow pointing to the left side of the base, shows a slightly straight area that I did not see when checking the final shape, on the actual plate.  This may be just a photo illusion, but I will need to check it out anyway.  I also think I see the same issue in the picture of the other side, in the same location, so I may have missed it.   

I do study my pictures, often seeing errors or something I don't like, and end up correcting them.  So, if you are building a rifle take pictures and study them.  You will be surprised at what you sometimes see!
Bob
  
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Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #34 - Today at 8:08pm
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Continuing with the installation of this buttplate.

Photo 1.  The drawing along with the wood and buttplate.

Photo 2.  First thing that needs to happen is finding the centerline from the action.  While there are several ways to do this, I found the easiest for me is clamp the action in the vice on my mill.  Find the center of the action.  I do verify the center from the front to the rear.  If it is off, which it usually is, I adjust the vice.

Photo 3.  I then scribe some lines in a few key places.  One can be seen just behind the cheek rest.

I then turn the stock and action over and do the same on the bottom.

Once that is completed, it is just a matter of connecting the dots.
Bob
  
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Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #35 - Today at 8:39pm
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I have mentioned before that the original rifle has some cast to the stock.  I decided to duplicate this cast on this rifle.  The original had 1/4 inch at the heel, or rear of comb, and to the right.  The toe, or bottom, had 1/2 inch, also to the right.   

This 1/2 inch is a lot, I actually reduced it to 7/16, but even that should make for some interesting shaping.

Photo 1. The buttplate is set over the heel cast line.  The other is the center line coming off the action center.

Photo 2.  The buttplate is setting over the toe cast line.  Again, the other line is the center.

If you install a buttplate on the centerline of a stock, the buttplate is fitted square to the center line.   

The same holds true for a stock with cast, except the buttplate is square to the new angled cast line, not the centerline.  With cast, if you were to install it square to the centerline, but on the cast line, the plate would not be on straight to the finished stock.

Photo 3 shows the line that is square to the cast line.  This doesn't look like much, but it would be seen if not done properly, especially with a long tang.

The problem with this stock, is the deference between the top and bottom cast being so different.  In this case, my plan is to follow the greater of the two angles, or the bottom toe line.  The top  tang, being shorter, should cover up the extra tipping it will have.  If I lined up on the top tang, I'm afraid the longer lower tang would look crooked.
Bob 
  
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Re: Joseph Singer Rifle
Reply #36 - Today at 9:15pm
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Now for the fitting to the wood.

Photo 1.  I mark and then bandsaw the butt of the stock, to the rough buttplate shape.  Then, using a rasp, I flatten and work to get the correct angle to how it is setting on the wood.  I lay the plate on the wood and remove wood where it touches, I just do this by eye for now.  I am also laying a straight edge on the stocks cast line, and checking to be sure the plate centerline is aligned with it.  This does get the fit close, but the following is how I finish.

I then layout a fresh centerline. I also need a location mark for where it will set on the vertical.  That locating line can also be seen here.

Photo 2.  Inletting black applied to the plate bottom.

Photo 3.  The black is hard to see on this Rosewood, I should have some yellow but, you can see it here.  I will remove the black only while fitting.

Photo 4.  I found while working on this final-fit that, even a small amount of changes in positioning was hard to not to do!  If it changed, I ended up with a gap in the valley or center area.

This pictures shows a small gap along this area but especially at the arrow.  While this isn't too bad, the other side of the plate is much worse.

So, I decided to install a locating pin so it is positioned exactly the same, every time it is off, and then back on.
Bob

  
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