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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value (Read 3062 times)
Sure shot
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #15 - Jul 9th, 2024 at 12:29pm
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To me it looks like someone used a 44 barrel and made a sleeve for the barrel shank,as the barrel shank and threads are larger on the 44 1/2.
  
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Dellet
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #16 - Jul 9th, 2024 at 12:42pm
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I think you would need to turn the 44 barrel down and re thread it  to have enough material for a sleeve. Never thought about it much. Probably be more like a helicoil than a sleeve if you didn’t.
  
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #17 - Jul 9th, 2024 at 1:15pm
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Dellet wrote on Jul 9th, 2024 at 12:42pm:
I think you would need to turn the 44 barrel down and re thread it  to have enough material for a sleeve. Never thought about it much. Probably be more like a helicoil than a sleeve if you didn’t.

That's what it looks like in the one picture, or it has a thick liner in it.
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #18 - Jul 9th, 2024 at 1:23pm
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Sure shot wrote on Jul 9th, 2024 at 1:15pm:
Dellet wrote on Jul 9th, 2024 at 12:42pm:
I think you would need to turn the 44 barrel down and re thread it  to have enough material for a sleeve. Never thought about it much. Probably be more like a helicoil than a sleeve if you didn’t.

That's what it looks like in the one picture, or it has a thick liner in it.


Agree.   Looks like the Hornet barrel was sleeved. (maybe just soldered in) into the butt of the original barrel.

CHRIS
  
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #19 - Jul 9th, 2024 at 1:31pm
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I glossed over the pic of the breech end.

What were the threads on a 416 bolt action?
  
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singleshooter721
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #20 - Jul 9th, 2024 at 5:55pm
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Sure shot wrote on Jul 9th, 2024 at 10:41am:
Actually the Stevens markings on the barrel are not backwards. Stevens did that on the later rifles. When looking from the right side of the rifle it's correct.


Maybe I meant upside down, the way the barrel is threaded on - the lettering is upside down from the right side.
  
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singleshooter721
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #21 - Jul 9th, 2024 at 6:04pm
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Thank you everyone for the comments. It sure is an interesting rifle to me and I'm enjoying the information. I definitely bought it to shoot. I do have some RWS ammo that has .223 diameter bullets, but I was also wondering if the PRVI ammunition with .222 diameter bullets would be acceptable. The .222 bullets are about half of the price of the .223 for reloading.

I'll get it cleaned up this weekend and take a cast of the chamber down into the barrel, that should give me the barrel diameter. I assume since the conversation was around .223 diameter bullets that I should be expecting a .223 diameter cast?

I'll also scope the bore, I assume that if it's an insert I would see a transition somewhere in the bore?

Anything else that I should take note of? If I have time maybe I'll pull the action apart for cleaning - but if feels smooth and I'm really itching to shoot it.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #22 - Jul 9th, 2024 at 6:13pm
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Just google this "sierra 223 hornet bullets". They are the best source of the 223 Hornet bullets. Most of the older Hornet and other 22 wildcat rifles had .223 barrels. I have used these bullets in my Hornets and in my 219 Donaldson Wasp. They are excellent bullets. They come in 40 and 45 grain weights which are ideal for the Hornet and they really come zipping out of my Wasp with excellent accuracy.
  
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #23 - Jul 9th, 2024 at 6:46pm
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singleshooter721 wrote on Jul 9th, 2024 at 5:55pm:
Sure shot wrote on Jul 9th, 2024 at 10:41am:
Actually the Stevens markings on the barrel are not backwards. Stevens did that on the later rifles. When looking from the right side of the rifle it's correct.


Maybe I meant upside down, the way the barrel is threaded on - the lettering is upside down from the right side.

I goofed, I should of said the lettering is not upside down when looking from the left side of the rifle. 
Here's an example:
  
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singleshooter721
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #24 - Jul 10th, 2024 at 8:46pm
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Well, I had a little time tonight so I cleaned the rifle, slugged the chamber and bore, borescoped, took some more data and then mounted a scope.

The bore was surprisingly clean with no pitting, it was continuous which leads me to believe that it's not a liner. The barrel is 24.5" long, tapered from .982" at the action to .830" at the muzzle and has a 1:16 twist. Both slugs with cerrosafe measured as .222 after an hour and the chamber slug confirmed that this is a hornet case.

I'm not certain what the .222 correlates to for the appropriate bullet diameter. 

I appreciate the input so far, I wouldn't have thought that the lettering was intended to be at that orientation and I've priced the sierra .223 bullets - just wondering if the PRVI's would be better suited at .222. I suppose if there's no harm done in trying both diameters, I could just load some up and see what shoots better in this rifle.
  
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #25 - Jul 14th, 2024 at 7:41pm
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I'll throw one more update out there then find a suitable reloading forum to take my next round of questions.

I had a chance to shoot the rifle over the weekend, at a close range - 25ish yards - which was a challenge to see the crosshairs on the 15x targetspot. I shot two 10 shot groups of the factory RWS ammunition, which I had pulled and measured one projectile as .223" dia. The first group on a clean bore was ok, the second group was much better - I would expect them to be really tight at 25yards but I'm sure the scope factored into things a bit.

There were no signs of pressure on the brass or split necks, but a couple of the primers did rupture. I'm not 100% sure if this is a result of the factory ammunition, bullet diameter or the rifle. I bought some .222 dia Hornady Jet bullets to try so I'm going to load those up and see what happens at 50 or 100 yards.
  
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #26 - Jul 15th, 2024 at 6:14pm
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1.  You don't really know what the diameter is with a vernier caliper.  When you get farther than 2 digits past the decimal, your in ouija board country.  A 1" micrometer will serve you MUCH better.

2.  I would like to see the breach block face and know what size the firing pin hole is and then the size of the firing pin tip.
When I see the fires cases, I'm not seeing pressure signs( sharp corners on the primer and leaking around the cup).  What I suspect is a oversized hole and the primer is expanding into it,  it also looks like it's capturing the firing pin and ripping it open when the block is lowered.  A couple looks like they ruptured on firing into this oversize hole.  That part scares the heck out of me.  Escaping gas could potentially hit your eye and even blow out the firing pin.
IMHO, I don't think it's safe to shoot until these issues are answered and addressed.
  

J. Scott McCash&&New Braunfels, TX&&830-237-2376&&jsmccash@yahoo.com
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #27 - Jul 16th, 2024 at 6:04am
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Did you buy that ammo, or did it come with the rifle?
Possibly reloads?

That looks more like the the wrong primer was used, too soft. I will use a Remington 1 1/2 in rifles that I want to see pressure signs early in.

When measuring a bullet or casting diameter with calipers, you’ll have better luck measuring across what would be the grooves instead of lengthwise. Other wise the blades won’t have full contact, and slip down into the groove left by the lands.
  
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bobw
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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #28 - Jul 16th, 2024 at 11:14am
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I would tend to agree with 830singleshot.  Not that primer can’t be part of the problem.   

I see several issues.

1. The primer flowing around the pin and what appears to be a “to large” breech block hole for the pin.

2. Blown primers.

3. The firing pin hanging up in the primer.  Looking at the shell bases #4-5 and 6 in the lower row.  They all appear to have marks in the primer and continued drag marks on the brass from the pin.  Of course with the primer flow the pin will drag trying to get free of the primer but I would think it should still be fully retracted by the time it gets to the brass.

I would definitely be looking at the pin and breech block hole and get it fixed if it is as suspected.  Also check to be sure the pin can or does fully retract.  The pin nose shape needs to be properly shaped on a 44 1/2 because of the angle it sets at, if not, it can have trouble releasing from the primer.  Is the pin protruding to far when fully extended from the hammer hitting it?  Lastly, make sure the action is timing the lift of the hammer properly.  The hammer should be lifting before or no later than when the breech block starts lowering so that the firing pin can release from the primer. A work around for this issue would to simply put the hammer to half cock before lowering the bb.
Bob
  

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Re: Help needed with Steven's 44 1/2 value
Reply #29 - Jul 16th, 2024 at 1:09pm
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You can buy new center fire breech blocks for original Stevens 44 1/2's from CPA for $125. However, there's a good chance the head space will be wrong.
  
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