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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Loose primers (Read 2425 times)
Bluedog
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Loose primers
Jun 22nd, 2024 at 6:25pm
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Hello all,
Is it normal for new starline 38-55 2.125 brass shot behind a breech seated 333 grain tapered Bullet with 15 grains of unique (1350 fps) to have the primer loose to the point of blow by coming around the primer? Primers fall out with virtually no effort after only a couple firings. 
Was shooting 23 grains of 4198 with the same Bullets and no issues. 

Thank you for any input!
Jason
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #1 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 6:48pm
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That's TO much pressure with Unique!

10.0 gr would be ok.
  

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Bluedog
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #2 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 7:03pm
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Thank you!
I started at 10 grains, and kept adding powder to get the speed up to 1350, I take it that’s not a great approach in the future. 

Jason
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #3 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 9:40pm
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A loose primer is a sign of excessive pressure.
« Last Edit: Jun 23rd, 2024 at 1:53am by Schutzenbob »  
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Bluedog
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #4 - Jun 22nd, 2024 at 10:59pm
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Thank you gentlemen!

Very poor mistake on my part
4198 powder shot the best groups at 1450 fps. 
When I decided to try unique powder I just assumed I’d target the same relative velocity. 
I’m obviously new to this and was given some advice to get a program of ballistics calculations but I don’t have a computer, just the phone. So I haven’t figured out how to get such a program on the telephone. 
I appreciate your input, it sounds like I should stick to 4198 powder in the 38-55 and keep the unique for the smaller calibers!
Thank you for your patience with a new guy, I’m sure I’ll have many more silly questions…….. before I make a dangerous mistake next time

Jason
  
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JerryH
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #5 - Jun 23rd, 2024 at 12:02am
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There are no silly (stupid) questions asked here. You'll find a wealth of information and a sincere willingness to help you.
« Last Edit: Jun 23rd, 2024 at 1:06am by JerryH »  

I'm not a complete idiot, some of my parts are missing.
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marlinguy
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #6 - Jun 23rd, 2024 at 8:32pm
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10-12 grs. is where most people find best using Unique, but as much as I like Unique for some cartridges I don't think I'd use it for a breech seated .38-55 with heavy bullets. 
I agree with going back to 4198 for this.
  

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boats
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #7 - Jun 24th, 2024 at 4:00am
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Unique is very useful with light bullets around 1100 FPS in the 38/55. All my Unique 38/55 loads are fixed cartridges subsonic due indoor range requirements. 

Heavier bullets 300 + my best powder was 4759 now discontinued, later switched to 4227. It’s ideal for 200 -300 yards accurate to 500, larger bore probably better for over 300 but the 38/55 has its advantages at long range. Mild recoil one.

Those powder's suit my shooting mostly due to holding velocities to about 1250 outdoors longer ranges. Something else could be better higher velocity 

Boats 

  
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jhm
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #8 - Jun 24th, 2024 at 11:57am
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Most of the straight wall cartridges no matter bore size are relatively low velocity so you need to use powders suited for such. 5744, 4198, 3031 etc are all good powders. I have done the same in past and it only takes a couple rounds to find your mistakes. I once loaded 50 rounds and had to pull them all and start over. I had a cloverleaf going at 100 yards but on the third round I blew a primer. We have all done it so don't feel bad. Just do some research start with low to moderate charges and go from there. Stay safe cause it is all fun till someone gets hurt...


JMH
  
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Bluedog
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #9 - Jun 24th, 2024 at 2:53pm
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Thank you!
I appreciate all your input!

Do you guys start with a mild charge and work your way up watching velocity with a specific velocity in mind?
I’ve read some threads here on the forum about having velocity supersonic all the way to the target, that’s why I was trying to get up to 1350 fps. That was just a guess of how fast I would need to keep it supersonic out to 100 yards 
This may have been a false assumption on my part also

Thank you again 

Jason
  
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4570mike
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #10 - Jun 24th, 2024 at 6:57pm
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Hey Jason,
My wife and I both shoot the 2.125” 38-55 with smokeless.  The best load we have encountered with a 330 gr slug (Accurate Mold) is 18 gr of 4198.
Used it out to 400 yards on silhouettes and it performs very well.
Mike.
  
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boats
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #11 - Jun 24th, 2024 at 9:38pm
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I’ve always loaded my CPA 38/55 with smokeless to black powder velocity’s. Reason is BP required in matches, wanted practice smokeless loads to nearly same sight settings. Never saw a reason to go faster. They are supersonic for a bit then settle down to sub sonic before 200 yard targets. I consider it a good combination to 500 yards.  It won’t knock over all rams but in my hands  shot higher scores than bigger calibers, = hit more targets.

32/40 other hand works well with smokeless at about 1450 fps. It’s just supersonic at 200 yards with charges around  14.5 grs of 4227. Some days some rifle ranges (not all are measured accurately)  need a bit more powder. You can see the wiggle holes on paper if they go subsonic at point of impact. 

Others may see it different.

Boats
  
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Bluedog
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #12 - Jun 25th, 2024 at 11:24am
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This is all very encouraging, thank you all kindly for your willingness to help!
I will repost in the future with some results 

Jason
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #13 - Jun 28th, 2024 at 4:03am
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Back during the development of what eventually became the 338 Lapua, the original Brass was produced by Bell for the RAI Model 300 rifle in the early 1980's. It was known to be soft and often it was impossible to open the bolt without the aid of a plastic mallet. I was told (ca 1988) a contributing factor was that the bullets used were 0.339 and were also spiking pressures causing the tie-ups. I ended up with some of this brass and used it in my Rem 700 based 8.58x71 (military designation before 338 Lapua). You can see where the base of the casing was extruded into the ejector pin hole of the bolt face using the loads recommended to me by the gunsmith at RAI, he barreled and chambered my 700.

Anyway, primers were not falling out until I have loaded the cases more than 5 times  Grin

BTW: note the lack of the headstamp...
« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2024 at 6:43am by SchwarzStock »  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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Bluedog
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Re: Loose primers
Reply #14 - Jul 4th, 2024 at 2:09pm
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I said I’d check back with results,
Seems the rifle prefers 4227 powder to 4198 
Thank you gentlemen for your help!
Still have a lot of playing around to do with velocity at further distances but testing was done at 75yds, and shows signs of encouragement 

Jason
  
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