Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? (Read 1917 times)
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1752
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule?
Reply #15 - May 12th, 2024 at 10:24pm
Print Post  
It's not a matter of careful, it's a matter of insistently stubborn.  There is a portion of the reloading fraternity that doesn't believe in detonation, chamber ringing, etc.   

The Quigley rule was put in place after some people stubbornly refused to change their overpowder wad with 5744 load procedure, because "I've been doing it and it works, the other people that blow up their guns must be doing something stupid".  The Ballard shown above, the couple involved had been repeatedly cautioned that their load wasn't suitable for that rifle, and maybe not for any, and they replied that they had been doing it for years.   

We see it here, where people repeatedly want to make Stevens 44's into higher pressure centerfires, where they want to put centerfires on #4 rolling blocks, where they want to put .223's on a rolling block action, where they want to use cast ballards where a forged one is needed.   

It really boils down to being cheap.  Trying to save a few dollars by using less expensive actions or less expensive powders, at the expense of a safety risk.   

The club that runs the Quigley shoot decided to proactively act to not let individuals being cheap put others around them at risk, and expose the club to liability in case of an accident.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 531
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule?
Reply #16 - May 12th, 2024 at 10:56pm
Print Post  
Well said Dave
The Q isnít like any other match in that there will be 600+ shooters packed sort of close together and well over a 1000 people in the vicinity of the firing line. 
Folks that take chances with loading procedure and gun handling take a terrible chance of injury to more than just themselves
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LRF
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 552
Location: MN
Joined: May 8th, 2010
Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule?
Reply #17 - May 13th, 2024 at 1:15pm
Print Post  
A couple pertained threads about 5744
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) 

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
curdog
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 69
Joined: Feb 26th, 2022
Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule?
Reply #18 - May 13th, 2024 at 7:20pm
Print Post  
Dave is right on the money.
I have seen more fine English Express rifles with ringed chambers from nitro for black loads, than I ever wanted to.

The heck of it is, it's easier to get them to shoot with black!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Premod70
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 861
Location: North Carolina
Joined: Jan 16th, 2016
Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule?
Reply #19 - May 13th, 2024 at 7:46pm
Print Post  
Question to the forum, are there any factual incidents of barrel ringing using 5744 with wads on the powder in the following brands of rifles; C Sharp, Shiloh or Browning?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 15852
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule?
Reply #20 - May 14th, 2024 at 7:41pm
Print Post  
As I said previously, reloading with smokeless isn't for dummies. But it's been done in black powder weapons ever since smokeless was introduced in the 1890's.
Seems that the BP vs. smokeless debate wasn't as big a deal 100 years ago as some are making it today. There are enough smokeless powders that operate at lower pressures than BP at equal velocities, if one does their homework.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartiniBelgian
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1655
Location: Aarschot
Joined: Jun 7th, 2004
Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule?
Reply #21 - May 15th, 2024 at 1:41am
Print Post  
Premod70 wrote on May 13th, 2024 at 7:46pm:
Question to the forum, are there any factual incidents of barrel ringing using 5744 with wads on the powder in the following brands of rifles; C Sharp, Shiloh or Browning?

Fwiw, chamber ringing or detonation isn't brand-related. What's more,† it's something known since the end of the 19th century which some of us conveniently choose to ignore.
« Last Edit: May 15th, 2024 at 3:24am by MartiniBelgian »  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
38-72
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 97
Location: Lost In Washington State
Joined: Aug 4th, 2008
Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule?
Reply #22 - May 15th, 2024 at 2:05am
Print Post  
Cbashooter wrote on May 11th, 2024 at 9:27am:
KFW wrote on May 11th, 2024 at 9:06am:
Just my thoughts, but in the spirit of the game I would like to see black powder loads only .....period.


I also think only original rifles should only† be allowed, no modern replicas.


And you have to travel to the match via horse and wagon.   Eat only buffalo and other wild game.   
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LRF
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 552
Location: MN
Joined: May 8th, 2010
Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule?
Reply #23 - May 15th, 2024 at 6:34am
Print Post  
38-72 wrote on May 15th, 2024 at 2:05am:
Cbashooter wrote on May 11th, 2024 at 9:27am:
KFW wrote on May 11th, 2024 at 9:06am:
Just my thoughts, but in the spirit of the game I would like to see black powder loads only .....period.


I also think only original rifles should only† be allowed, no modern replicas.


And you have to travel to the match via horse and wagon.† †Eat only buffalo and other wild game.† 

LOL, but it wasn't all hardship they did have canned Peaches (However the cans were soldered with lead) Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2247
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule?
Reply #24 - May 15th, 2024 at 8:53am
Print Post  
And you can't use "splinter free" toilet paper.  Apparently that wasn't common until the 1930's  Cheesy

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Premod70
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 861
Location: North Carolina
Joined: Jan 16th, 2016
Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule?
Reply #25 - May 15th, 2024 at 4:09pm
Print Post  
MartiniBelgian wrote on May 15th, 2024 at 1:41am:
Premod70 wrote on May 13th, 2024 at 7:46pm:
Question to the forum, are there any factual incidents of barrel ringing using 5744 with wads on the powder in the following brands of rifles; C Sharp, Shiloh or Browning?

Fwiw, chamber ringing or detonation isn't brand-related. What's more,† it's something known since the end of the 19th century which some of us conveniently choose to ignore.

No, it is somewhat brand/make related, jmho. All the before mentioned brands I named are not known for barrels that ring. Thereís a big difference between the barrels of the black powder period and those made to withstand high pressure smokeless powders. All the brands I mentioned have barrels made for high pressures. There are plenty more but the ones found at the Quigley are usually of the three mentioned. A rule I use for loading smokeless powder loads with a wad is to stay under 20,000 psi and fire those loads in barrels made to withstand 60,000 psi on a regular basis. The French scientist, Vieille, stated that a wad over the powder would increase the pressures at the base of the bullet/projectile by two to three times. Using that figure tells me Iím reasonably safe as long as I stay below the quoted figure. Now, I know there are various ways to defeat any steel but so far I have loaded and fired over 4000 rounds using 5744 and a overpowder wad with no failure or sign there of but do not do this with antiques or low pressure barrels such as the Italian replicas; modern high pressure barrels only. Another plus in using a wad is every round I load is measured to a constant level assuring no double charges.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint