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Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? (Read 4570 times)

Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1646 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? May 10^th, 2024 at 8:17pm	Print Post
	I sure wouldn't like to be in charge of enforcing that rule.

	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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Bent_Ramrod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1534 Location: Southern Arizona Joined: Feb 8^th, 2006	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #1 - May 11^th, 2024 at 8:10am	Print Post
	Not “always,” but going on for a few years now. One lady badly damaged her hand when her Ballard blew up and a year or two later some guy cracked his chamber and the bottom of his Pedersoli Sharps action. Both were using 5744 with overpowder wads. No prohibition against using 5744, or any safe smokeless load; just no wads over double base.


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KFW Oldtimer Offline Posts: 600 Location: Wyoming Joined: Dec 18^th, 2016	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #2 - May 11^th, 2024 at 9:06am	Print Post
	Just my thoughts, but in the spirit of the game I would like to see black powder loads only .....period.


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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3403 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #3 - May 11^th, 2024 at 9:27am	Print Post
	I wonder if there are any records of scores that include.whether shooters used BP or smokeless or duplex. There is an active local BP group at my home range. I haven’t participated yet but am considering it. The longest range is only 200 yds and over 1/2 of the record targets are shot at 100 yds and their offhand ‘King’ target is shot at 50 yds. When I first got into single shots after watching Quigley Down Under, grease groove bullets were pushing paper patch out, but locally PP is making a resurgence. Iron sights don’t work well for me anymore but my 38-55 high wall has scope blocks and my old Stevens 368 with clickless Winchester A5 mounts would fit in. I should dig out the crosssticks and make turn some Blackpowder into white smoke again.

	ASSRA # 11318 There are more hydrogen atoms in a single molecule of water than there are suns in the entire solar system.
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sureshot Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 334 Location: Snohomish Joined: May 27^th, 2007	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #4 - May 11^th, 2024 at 12:17pm	Print Post
	[quote I also think only original rifles should only be allowed, no modern replicas. [/quote] Hey Quigley used a "modern replica"!


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 17280 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #5 - May 11^th, 2024 at 2:57pm	Print Post
	If modern rifles weren't allowed the Quigley would probably die quickly. I know the attendance from guys shooting Shiloh Sharps, and CPA rifles (plus a few others) would be greatly reduced as soon as that type of rule came about.

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cheatin_charlie Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 410 Location: ohio Joined: Jan 10^th, 2009	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #6 - May 12^th, 2024 at 10:45am	Print Post
	Jeff_Schultz wrote on May 10^th, 2024 at 8:17pm: I sure wouldn't like to be in charge of enforcing that rule. When I shot BPCS the officers would randomly take cartridges out of your cartridge box and break them down to check for conformity of the rules. They would return to you a zip lock bag with all the components and wish you good luck. Never saw anybody disqualified for illegal ammo. Everyone knew the rules and you could be checked at any time. Charlie


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Ranch13 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 608 Location: East Central Wy. Joined: Jan 20^th, 2018	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #7 - May 12^th, 2024 at 11:57am	Print Post
	It''s a pretty simple deal, no wads in smokeless loads. As with so many rules that one is written in blood. In the last few years, there has been one rifle blow up with serious injury to the shooter, and by the grace of god no bystanders were hurt. ! rifle blew but fortunately nobody got hurt. 1 more rifle bulged the barrel bad enough that it not blowing was just and act of grace. If you don't like the rules at a match someplace don't go.


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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3403 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #8 - May 12^th, 2024 at 2:09pm	Print Post
	The Marksman range close to Puyalllup WA did not allow handloads but would sell you their handloaded ammo. Also no lead bullets except for .22 rf.

	ASSRA # 11318 There are more hydrogen atoms in a single molecule of water than there are suns in the entire solar system.
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Lead Pot Full Member Offline Posts: 144 Joined: Nov 12^th, 2012	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #9 - May 12^th, 2024 at 4:14pm	Print Post
	I personally don't like shooting next to a shooter shooting the large capacity shells loaded with smokeless powder. The Ballard that blew at the Q I was within 20 feet from her looking in that direction when it blew and I saw parts hitting the ground. Terrible sight to see her in pain. The night before this happen we sat around at the campsite discussing loads and this smokeless subject came up and I said that I have seen one at our local range get a walnut at the chamber right after I told him not to shoot that load when I asked what the load was. He said I loaded some 5744. I said that .45-3-1/4 (.45-120) is a very large case and the loose powder could get a flash over making a destination he said I have a wad holding it down, I said don't shoot that load!! and he said I loaded smokeless for many years with out a problem and I said your new rifle you are showing me with that load wont take it. He went off to the 100 yard range for a sight setting. Pretty soon he came back asking if I had a cleaning rod with me, What's the matter I asked and he said I cant get the case out. His rifle held but the chamber was bulged. When I shoot at the Q during practice and a smokeless shooter comes on line I don't like the filler they use burning my eyes when the wind blows in my direction. Below is the Ballard I took pictures of that blew.


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art_ruggiero Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1184 Location: CT Joined: Dec 14^th, 2008	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #10 - May 12^th, 2024 at 4:53pm	Print Post
	cast action?? art


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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1646 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #11 - May 12^th, 2024 at 5:05pm	Print Post
	It must be a pretty careless bunch at the Quigly. At Etna Green almost everyone uses a wad of some sort with no problem.

	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 17280 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #12 - May 12^th, 2024 at 5:16pm	Print Post
	art_ruggiero wrote on May 12^th, 2024 at 4:53pm: cast action?? art Art, that hollow space under the barrel threads confirms it's a cast action.

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KFW Oldtimer Offline Posts: 600 Location: Wyoming Joined: Dec 18^th, 2016	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #13 - May 12^th, 2024 at 5:46pm	Print Post
	Jeff_Schultz wrote on May 12^th, 2024 at 5:05pm: It must be a pretty careless bunch at the Quigly. At Etna Green almost everyone uses a wad of some sort with no problem. If you think a "careless bunch" is limited only to the Quigley gathering, you would be wrong.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 17280 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Quigly over powder wad smokeless rule? Reply #14 - May 12^th, 2024 at 7:47pm	Print Post
	Loading cartridges has never been something people who aren't careful, and fairly intelligent should do. And those who don't know how to load with smokeless powders safely should probably stick with BP. But for those willing to be careful, and learn what powders work well with smokeless there's no reason to fear loading smokeless powder into old cartridges, or guns made for those cartridges. We've all heard of this cast Ballard that blew up, and some have blamed wads used with double based powders, while others blame whoever decided to build up a larger CF cartridge on a cast action Ballard. I personally think that with care and the right loads that Ballard cast action would hold up forever in .38-55, but I also wouldn't build one myself. I've shot a #2 cast action someone chambered in .32-40 for many years, and always using light loads of smokeless powder at pressures my ballistic program say are around 16,000 psi. I've never worried about it giving up, and I still don't. I wont use double base smokeless powders, with or without wads on the powder. But I wont use wads on top of the powder with single base either. Wads are either going to be at the case mouth, or with BP loads that are full cases. I just shake my head when the discussions pop up about smokeless vs. BP in old guns. There's plenty of guys who know how to load smokeless in reduced charges, or with slower powder, and have been doing so safely for many decades.

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