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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Help! Cratering on my block face (Read 1233 times)
KaiserKong
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Help! Cratering on my block face
May 2nd, 2024 at 8:23pm
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Hi all - need some help here.

I was out firing my Aydt rifle this past week. I was trying out some new loads using Remington 2 1/2 large pistol primers. While I've read that the pistol primers can improve ignition with lighter striking rifles, I've also read cautions about using pistol primers because they seat lower in the pocket and have a tendency to cause an imprint/crater on the block face. I thought I'd be okay because I picked some brass that had a shallower pocket depth and I also added some paper in between the primer and pocket to try and get the primer to seat more flush on the case bottom. 

Well after my session (about 40 shots) while cleaning the rifle I notice an imprint on my block face.  Embarrassed  I guess my precautions weren't enough. The pitting and scoring on the face was already there but the circular imprint is certainly new. 

So any suggestions to what I might do to rectify this? Would switching back to large rifle primers be all that's needed, or now that the imprint is there will it just keep getting deeper. Would it be okay to lightly grind the block face (a few thousands with in the safe head-space range) to try and make the face more flat again? I'd hate to do any work on an original shuetzen rifle. Besides that would just finding a replacement block for shooting be the way and keep the original and not fire with it any more? Any suggestions / thoughts would be appreciated. 

-Dave
  
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ssdave
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #1 - May 2nd, 2024 at 8:40pm
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I'd try it with large RIFLE and see if it gets worse.  If not, just use it.  Or, if it gets worse or interferes with opening the block, send it off to a competent gunsmith to put in a stepped/collared insert to repair both the crater and the pitting.  That won't hurt the originality or value of the rifle, any more than it has already been decreased by the damage.
  
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KaiserKong
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #2 - May 2nd, 2024 at 8:43pm
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Thanks ssdave

Just for the record - I've put a couple hundred shots through this rifle using Fed 210 large rifle primers without seeing any detriment. I only saw this after firing about 40 Rem 2 1/2 large pistol primers. I'll switch back to the Fed 210 (with what few I have) and see if it gets worse.
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #3 - May 2nd, 2024 at 9:05pm
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Looks to me like you need a hardened bushing in that breech face.
  
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beltfed
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #4 - May 2nd, 2024 at 9:13pm
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That gas cutting that you said was there- I presume from
when you were using the rifle primers?
That ring of gas cutting is from leakage Around primers that have not fully sealed in the primer pocket.
I had such gas cutting in the bolt face in competitive shooting with an AR. Happened with some Russian ammo supplied briefly to the team. 
Lucky, bolt heads are relatively cheap and available
Now, the depression which occurred while shooting 40 rds with LP primers.  Can I presume that the original Aydt block is relatively soft?   
I would definitely suggest you have the block bushed with a
modern hard steel insert as ssdave suggested, too.
beltfed/arnie
  
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KaiserKong
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #5 - May 3rd, 2024 at 4:51pm
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Thanks all!

Does anyone have a photo of their block face that has a hardened bushing in it? Also any recommendations any single-shot gunsmiths that have experience doing this type of work? 

To clarify the gas cutting/ putting was there when I bought the rifle. I’m not sure if it’s from its time shooting in Germany with Berdan primers or since it’s been in the states with boxers. I hadn’t noticed any deterioration of that since I got it and put a few hundred rounds through it with large rifle primers.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #6 - May 3rd, 2024 at 5:10pm
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There are two ways to repair the block face. One involves milling a hole in the face large enough for a plug or bushing, and the hole and bushing are usually threaded, then Loctited in and milled flush. 
The other way is a dovetail cut across the face of the block, and a filler fitted into the dovetail slot also installed with Loctite. Either works great, and if done right will not hurt the value of your firearm.
if you tell us your location it might help guys point you towards someone close by.
  

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ledball
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #7 - May 3rd, 2024 at 5:17pm
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IMO, really worn primer pockets or excessive headspace. Ledball
  
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singleshotsam
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #8 - May 3rd, 2024 at 6:13pm
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Here is a photo of a Winchester 1885 with a bushed breech block face. There are numerous designs to accomplish the same thing.
  
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n.r.davis
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #9 - May 3rd, 2024 at 11:02pm
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Wondering if Welding the face, redrilling the Firing Pin Hole and a Proper Case Hardening say .005 case could be another way of repairing.  David
  
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JerryH
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #10 - May 4th, 2024 at 12:18am
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I like singleshotsam's method. It certainly would require a lot of experience and skill, but it would be far and away the best solution.
  

I'm not a complete idiot, some of my parts are missing.
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KaiserKong
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #11 - May 4th, 2024 at 12:30am
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Thanks all - the descriptions and picture makes more sense now. 

I’m in Southern California area.

And the brass was only on its 3rd firing and my headspace is very small (less than a thou) so I don’t think those were contributors.
  
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JerryH
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #12 - May 4th, 2024 at 12:36am
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Contact singleshotsam, you won't be sorry.
  

I'm not a complete idiot, some of my parts are missing.
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rkba2nd
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #13 - May 4th, 2024 at 1:04am
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There are reasons why pistol primers are called pistol primers and rifle primers are called rifle primers. Best to heed published warnings regarding potential problems. At a minimum shim the rifle pocket to correct pistol primer pocket depth, and not with paper!!! JMNSHO
  

rkba2nd
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KaiserKong
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Re: Help! Cratering on my block face
Reply #14 - May 4th, 2024 at 1:40am
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Not to get controversial but several Schuetzen books advise using the large pistol primers because they have softer/thinner cups more in line with what the old black powder primers had. My rifle is a light striker so has harder time with the large rifle primers. I can point to several books that call out Rem 2 1/2 pistol primers in 32-40 cartridges. The brass I used actually had pocket depths on the shallow end of the large rifle range and the Rem 2 1/2 primers are on the high end of the pistol primer end. So all in all the bullets were not seated more than a few thou under flush. I’m thinking the smaller diameter boxer primer to the original Berdan primers used with this rifle probably puts more pressure on the breach face too. Albeit good point that  metal shim probably help but I’m not away where I could procure such shims, any advise there?
« Last Edit: May 4th, 2024 at 1:58am by KaiserKong »  
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