Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter (Read 1088 times)
Bent_Ramrod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1427
Location: Southern Arizona
Joined: Feb 8th, 2006
Re: Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter
Reply #15 - Mar 29th, 2024 at 4:53pm
Print Post  
I never measured the bore on the first .45-70 I had success with in paper patching.  The first two paper-patch moulds I found were a Hoch 500 gr of 0.444" diameter and a Steve Brooks 540 gr of 0.441" diameter.

I cast and patched a bunch of these, checked the fit of the patched bullets in the muzzle of the rifle, and went on from there.  They didn't stick, or fall through without resistance, so I figured that was good for starters.  Later I reread Elmer Keith's instructions and pushed the things through from the breech and got the same results he got, so I guessed I was on the right track.

The Brooks bullet shot very well; the Hoch, despite the tighter fit, has never done as well.  I also had success with a Red River Rick mould of nominal 0.442" and eventually lapped out another Brooks mould (of nominal diameter 0.441+") to 0.443". This last is the one I use more than the others now, but I haven't seen any consistent accuracy differences that I can assign to diameters one to the other.  The RRR bullet shoots very well, but casting is more complicated because it's a hollow base adjustable, and more finicky to cast with.  The 0.443" also needs a little less of a squeeze with the mouth reducer, so that is the one I generally reach for first now.  Also, of course, once I put extra effort into something, I tend to use it more.  Just me, I guess.

But the point I was trying to make is that there is going to be enough cut-and-try experimenting (except for the fortunate few), regardless of book learning or advice on what is supposed to work best.  The OP himself posted because the plethora of "Thou Shalts" and "Thou Shalt Nots" understandably confused him as to which draconian requirements are more important than all the other (sometimes conflicting) absolute must-dos.  Having a point to start from beats any amount of preliminary measuring and figuring that might mean anything or nothing by the time the gun is loaded and fired.  Casting and patching a bullet that one already has the ability to make and seeing whether it actually rattles down that oversized bore or slides like it should (regardless of the measurements) would be a more definitive indication of whether the setup is likely to work than generating a bunch of numbers that may or may not be applicable, but do indicate (according to the authorities) that one needs to buy a whole bunch of extra stuff before a shot can be fired.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 531
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter
Reply #16 - Mar 29th, 2024 at 5:30pm
Print Post  
Obi2Winky wrote on Mar 29th, 2024 at 4:22pm:
Thank you all for all the advice! That's a whole lot to digest and think about. 

I have a 0.450 minus pin gauge and that slid down the bore slowly and gently. I think air pressure was slowing it down. So it can't be that much bigger than that. My slugs keeps coming back at just around 0.452. I ordered pin gauges up to 0.453 so we'll see where it stops. thanks for that idea!


just out of curiosity have you loaded and fired  your rifle with a grease groove bulle? if so which bullet and how many lube grooves exposed to get the driving band to the throat?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Obi2Winky
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 13
Location: Massachusetts
Joined: Mar 8th, 2020
Re: Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter
Reply #17 - Mar 29th, 2024 at 11:14pm
Print Post  
This gun has never been fire before. So I don't even have once fired brass! 
45-90 is not something I could get at my local Cabelas so I started researching how to make one and after many rabbit holes, I have arrived here  Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 531
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter
Reply #18 - Mar 29th, 2024 at 11:41pm
Print Post  
Okydoky then there's a long way to go and not much time to get there if you're looking to go to the Creedmoor 150.
So maybe start with this mould. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
When you place the order have them throw in some .060 wads, either fiber or the ldpe.
Hopefully you've got dies already, and a chamfer tool for the insdide of the case mouth. After you get the blocks and cast some from 16-1 alloy and get them wrapped, if the expander die expands the cases to much to give you a bit of neck tension, then take a measurement of your patched bullet and get a custom expander die about .002 over that diameter.
Then start testing loads as best you can, followed with excellent fouling control routine. Bore pigs of some kind are the best bet. I like the Bore Wipe system from BACO, it's expensive to set up but it sure works.If you start with 1 or 2 kits and a package of 250 felts you'll be good to go.
Then hopefully you can catch some matches like the Read PA, maybe if they're still running the midrange matches in New Jersey, and the long range matches at Lodi Ws.
Your .442 bullet will likely work for some things, but it's more likely to leave you in a lurch looking for the 10 ring on targets beyond 600.
1 1/2 f powder likely be your best bet, but 1f can also work well. 2f will work but the recoil factor will go up .
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 531
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter
Reply #19 - Mar 29th, 2024 at 11:45pm
Print Post  
The other option might be get one of the 535 gr money bullet grease groove bullets, some top notch bullett lube like Bullshop NASA or SPG and get a handle on load development and the mystics of match shooting.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Obi2Winky
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 13
Location: Massachusetts
Joined: Mar 8th, 2020
Re: Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter
Reply #20 - Mar 29th, 2024 at 11:56pm
Print Post  
Ranch13 wrote on Mar 29th, 2024 at 11:41pm:
Okydoky then there's a long way to go and not much time to get there if you're looking to go to the Creedmoor 150.
So maybe start with this mould. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
When you place the order have them throw in some .060 wads, either fiber or the ldpe.
Hopefully you've got dies already, and a chamfer tool for the insdide of the case mouth. After you get the blocks and cast some from 16-1 alloy and get them wrapped, if the expander die expands the cases to much to give you a bit of neck tension, then take a measurement of your patched bullet and get a custom expander die about .002 over that diameter.
Then start testing loads as best you can, followed with excellent fouling control routine. Bore pigs of some kind are the best bet. I like the Bore Wipe system from BACO, it's expensive to set up but it sure works.If you start with 1 or 2 kits and a package of 250 felts you'll be good to go.
Then hopefully you can catch some matches like the Read PA, maybe if they're still running the midrange matches in New Jersey, and the long range matches at Lodi Ws.
Your .442 bullet will likely work for some things, but it's more likely to leave you in a lurch looking for the 10 ring on targets beyond 600.
1 1/2 f powder likely be your best bet, but 1f can also work well. 2f will work but the recoil factor will go up .


I don't have dies yet. But in my shopping cart,  I have the Lyman Classic rifle set for 45-90, expander body and compression plug. Once I get a more accurate bore measurement, that'll decide my final patched bullet diameter, which will determine the expansion plug. 

Fortunately I have a lot of Swiss 1/5 F!

As for bullet moulds, I spoke to Steve from Brooks today and he said he could get one made in not much time once I decide on a design. So there's hope



Now I know where the tax return money will go  Grin
BACo seems to be out of a lot of things. No 45 cal bore wipe kit, and no 45-100 brass to trim down to my chamber. But I do have 45-90 so that'll have to do.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 531
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter
Reply #21 - Mar 30th, 2024 at 12:04am
Print Post  
Well good luck and have fun with it
Target rifle is a fun and challenging game to play
Keep us posted on your progress
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SchwartzStock
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1018
Location: SchwarzWald
Joined: Mar 23rd, 2010
Re: Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter
Reply #22 - Mar 30th, 2024 at 8:43am
Print Post  
I second the idea perhaps it would be good to get a handle on the rifle and cartridge with GGB's and work up to PPB's as time goes along.
  

Halt Fest! Ziel Gut! Schiess Fleck!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 531
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter
Reply #23 - Mar 30th, 2024 at 9:39am
Print Post  
Just to be clear. I haven't fired grease groove bullets in competition for over a decade, prefer to use patched.
My thoughts on suggesting the money bullet was only intended as an expedient manner for him to get prepared to attend a big match, a not very long time from now.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Obi2Winky
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 13
Location: Massachusetts
Joined: Mar 8th, 2020
Re: Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter
Reply #24 - Mar 30th, 2024 at 5:18pm
Print Post  
I'm definitely not opposed to going GG, especially if I'm going to have to get a new mould. But then I would have to also die a luibrisizer which I don't have.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ranch13
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 531
Location: East Central Wy.
Joined: Jan 20th, 2018
Re: Guidance on PPB 45-90 for a new BPCR shooter
Reply #25 - Mar 30th, 2024 at 5:35pm
Print Post  
Probably wouldn't need to size the bullets from one of the BACO moulds. Just pan lube them.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint