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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Special Ballard Parts (Read 2721 times)
GT
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Special Ballard Parts
Jan 16th, 2024 at 8:38am
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They're not really all that special in the whole scheme of things but I couldn't think of anything catchy to call them.  I've mentioned before that I'm building various trigger assemblies to go with the Ballard builds I have happening.  Making a trigger plate for a Ballard and getting it to blend has been a struggle for me.  The radius the mating side to the breech block specifies is 9.75" or a 19.5" diameter.  The bottom calls for a 9.7" radius plus a 1" radius on the belly perpendicular to the fit.  I've made a couple of them and to make things look right - it’s a lot of file work.    I have a few to make so I put a little thought into it.  I had an order going in to our local steel supplier for some rings and plates and decided to pursue an idea.  I ordered a ring cut from 1" plate, 18.5" id by 20" od.  I chucked this in one of the medium size lathes and turned the inside to about 19", turned the outside to about 19.9" then turned a shoulder about .200" deep on each side at about 19.3"dia.  When this was completed the ring was removed from the lathe and a 2.5" long section was cut from the ring.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #1 - Jan 16th, 2024 at 8:40am
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The radii don't really follow the Ballard prints I have but the plates fit well in the breech blocks I’ve hacked out.  In one of the first photos of triggers, on the 1” drop (the innards from the ring I had cut) are some of the trigger/trigger plates I’ve made and fit up to various breech blocks, the hand fitting process sucks.  So far I’ve been whittling on one trigger plate and it appears to be fitting in the mix well.  The close coupled triggers arrangements are still in the development stages and what we’re referring to as V4 (version 4) probably more like V9 in reality is beginning to take shape and it looks like a set will fit in the Ballard striker body we designed AND the double set body we came up with.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #2 - Jan 16th, 2024 at 8:41am
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For those with an eye for detail, you may have noticed an odd looking hammer in photo #9, it’s our version of the Niedner/Binger self cocking hammer, or at least the 3D printed version for fitting purposes.  More on this as the thread progresses.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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bobw
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #3 - Jan 16th, 2024 at 11:05am
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Greg, always fun and interesting to see what you are up to!  That ring is way beyond my machine capabilities.  I would have thought a 1 ton rotary table had been easier. Cheesy
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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marlinguy
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #4 - Jan 16th, 2024 at 11:26am
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Pretty clever Greg! And now you've got a piece large enough to make numerous trigger plates from!
  

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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #5 - Jan 16th, 2024 at 11:30am
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Nice, Greg,

Whenever I see a solution like this, it reminds me of the one time I did an action from castings.  When I was done, I thought it would have been less work to make it from steel bars, and have it all the right size and fit instead of having to work around the "almost right" shape and size of the castings.
  
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #6 - Jan 16th, 2024 at 1:35pm
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Mercy, that's impressive.
  
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #7 - Jan 16th, 2024 at 6:22pm
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Never would of thought going that route,very cool....
  

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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #8 - Jan 16th, 2024 at 8:28pm
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Sometimes I get annoyed at Greg because he has so many unfinished projects.  Then he pulls an outside-the-box stunt like this one and, once more, I have to bow to his genius.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #9 - Jan 19th, 2024 at 2:37pm
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After about a year or two of machine shop classes at the local community college, I’ve come to the conclusion that I have no natural aptitude for that kind of work.  Seeing this project, Greg, just reinforces that idea but makes me wish even more that I did!  Nice work.
Froggie
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #10 - Jan 21st, 2024 at 7:25am
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I look at Gregs pics and am always in awe of his talent, motivation and clever machining. I want in the worst way to buy and start one of Rodney’s 44 1/2 casting kits but know better. As machinists, we all take a lot of pride in unique setups that “get the job done” in some convoluted way. Building a 44 1/2 on my Burke mill would certainly test all limits. Keep up the awesome work and keep pics coming Greg!
  
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #11 - Jan 22nd, 2024 at 6:30am
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Certainly one way of getting the radii you need for your project. Maybe not the way I would have approached the problem, BUT you mentioned your "medium size lathes", with at least a 20" swing makes me wonder what the swing of your "large lathe" must be?  Smiley
  
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #12 - Jan 22nd, 2024 at 9:05am
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without the gap removed, it's 36".  If I remove the gap (I made and scraped in) which I try never to do I can swing 44".

Here's another part still in process but the concept should be self explanatory.  A self cocking hammer, the link that does that dirty work, a modified spring and a stirrup.  The sear barely resembles the original too.  For those that know the Ballard double set trigger breech blocks, in this design the dowel pins got moved, as did the tang screw for the halves.  I'm working on a firing pin arrangements similar to the Eric Johnson design. More to follow.

One last photo, a set of breech block halves just finished roughing in the mill.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #13 - Jan 22nd, 2024 at 10:24am
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Pretty impressive work Greg. Thanks for sharing.
Cheers Richard
  
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #14 - Jan 22nd, 2024 at 1:39pm
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I felt an accomplishment from turning a few brass rods to certain sizes on a lathe. Big chest beating from using a mill to flatten a piece of steel on two sides to a needed dimension. And then I show up here and see you guys doing all this stuff..... sheesh!
Smiley
  
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #15 - Jan 23rd, 2024 at 10:18am
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I hear Ya calledflyer!  Loud and clear!  Talent abounds among those on this forum!

Regards,
Joe
  
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #16 - Jan 23rd, 2024 at 11:38am
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So true Joe.  I have the tools including a nice South Bend lathe and little skill and even less patience.  I even tried staying in a Holiday Inn Express but that didn’t help. 

Jack
  

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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #17 - Jan 24th, 2024 at 9:11am
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Here's pictures of the front and rear triggers on our latest close couple design.  I used a sharpie and inked the card so the actual trigger would show.  The real work is just getting ready to happen,  liberating the triggers from the "card" and then getting them to fit and function.  We've modified them considerably from the Winchester design they started as.  I'll share more pics as they go together.
Nivins.

  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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marlinguy
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #18 - Jan 24th, 2024 at 10:01am
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What's the process to separate the triggers from the rest of the steel? Do you just flip it over and mill down to the parting surface?
  

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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #19 - Jan 24th, 2024 at 11:01am
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Vall,
I have a couple of steps to machine on the reverse of the rear trigger, for that I can flip it over and machine a little bit, but to liberate them from the rest of the card, I use a hack saw and cut them out.  Then I toe clamp them to another fixture and machine the reverse in steps - trying to machine them from the rest of the material is a wreck waiting to happen - and it does.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #20 - Jan 24th, 2024 at 12:05pm
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Greg,  Thank you. Good idea. Have been through that wreck.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #21 - Jan 24th, 2024 at 1:05pm
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Thanks Greg! Helps me visualize what you're doing, even if I'll never do it myself.
  

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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #22 - Jan 24th, 2024 at 1:44pm
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Is this CNC work? Intimating to those who attempt this freehand!
  
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #23 - Jan 24th, 2024 at 3:19pm
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These were done on the CNC.  I've struggled through a few of them freehand, cutting to a scribed line, a couple using a rotary table, but by far, this program works the best.   A few have a machine like this in their hobby shop... 

A little something about this CNC, I bought it with the intent to use it for my business but 90% or more of my work it won't do, economically anyway, large Cincinatti's, G&L's and Lucas manual mills dwarf this CNC capabilities so I've resigned the use of this for anything but plastic, aluminum and small gun work  Smiley  To buy a CNC that has the capabilities approaches high six figures so I wasn't interested. 
 
I sprung for this mill before I formed a corp and a personal loan bought it so it's not tied to the business.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #24 - Jan 24th, 2024 at 11:15pm
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It really makes me wonder how Ballard made LOTS of parts in production 150 years ago! 
They knew something then too!
  
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #25 - Jan 25th, 2024 at 9:42pm
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150 years ago they used jigs to hold stuff and form cutters to make the shapes.
  
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #26 - May 9th, 2024 at 10:02am
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Life seems to be speeding up and time slips by even faster when the gaps are filled with things one enjoys.  Using this as an excuse, my posts have suffered to the point they've diminished.  I have still been "making" a few things, actually a lot of things.  Here's pics of one of the latest.  We call it version 4 of the compact close couple triggers but looking back through the mess and briefly at this post, it may be version 5 or 6 but I'm not really counting.
My end goal was to develop a set of triggers that are simple, low enough profile to fit a Hepburn or a Ballard and my son may have added the right twist that makes this happen.   
The trigger sear was inverted keeping it below the pivot pins.  The knock-off (rear trigger) operates within an area about an eighth inch above the pins, and two simple coil springs activate the system.  In my test pieces no adjusting screws have been added yet and the trigger breaks crisp at 7 or 8 oz. with no pre- and very minute over-travel. 
The downfall of the system and it is by design, the only way it fires is if the trigger is set.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #27 - May 9th, 2024 at 1:39pm
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Here's an experiment... showing the triggers in motion. Maybe...
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #28 - yesterday at 9:15am
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Installed and functioning in one of my Ballards builds.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #29 - yesterday at 9:59am
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Amazing work and talent!
  

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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #30 - yesterday at 1:37pm
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Takes my breath away. More than envious Greg.
  

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Re: Special Ballard Parts
Reply #31 - yesterday at 3:15pm
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Nice work Greg! 
Interested to see how you like it after you have some trigger time behind it?
Cheers!
Jeff P
  
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