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OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall (Read 3824 times)

bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Aug 27^th, 2023 at 4:38pm	Print Post
	Wes Turner has been cajoling me to buy something other than another High or low Wall (I only have 11 now). At the Oregon Arms show, I picked up another Ballard and this Borchart, my first. The price was very good for this sporterized military rifle with the proper barrel markings. Chambered in 45-70, the bore is bright and shiny with no pitting visible to the naked eye with shallow rifling. The Parkenfarker attempt at making the receiver look case hardened is lame but fixable. Jack
	« Last Edit: Aug 27^th, 2023 at 7:15pm by bpjack »
	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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kensmachine Oldtimer Offline Posts: 549 Joined: Nov 21^st, 2012	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #1 - Aug 27^th, 2023 at 8:10pm	Print Post
	when I talked you about that sharps you told me no ken


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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #2 - Aug 27^th, 2023 at 8:37pm	Print Post
	Vall talked me into it. I got it for $300 less than he was asking but without the scope which I wasn't interested in anyway.

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 15771 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #3 - Aug 28^th, 2023 at 10:17am	Print Post
	Price was what someone would have paid for just a Borchardt action, so a tough one to pass up for sure! You did great Jack!

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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #4 - Aug 28^th, 2023 at 5:11pm	Print Post
	How is the trigger, Jack?

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #5 - Aug 28^th, 2023 at 6:19pm	Print Post
	Typical military trigger. Somewhat stiff but no creep.

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #6 - Aug 28^th, 2023 at 6:57pm	Print Post
	Of my three Borchardts with plain triggers, the military rifle has the best trigger. It kicks like a mule.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #7 - Aug 28^th, 2023 at 7:10pm	Print Post
	I think I will try the 395 gr Lee bullets I have cast instead of the 550 gr Creedmore ones.

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #8 - Aug 28^th, 2023 at 7:17pm	Print Post
	I would too, if there were any musket matches anywhere.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #9 - Aug 28^th, 2023 at 7:24pm	Print Post
	I put Chuck's 10x All American scope on it but it still only comes out a bit over 9 lbs.

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #10 - Aug 28^th, 2023 at 7:44pm	Print Post
	Can't use a scope in a musket match.... Make one like this.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #11 - Aug 28^th, 2023 at 7:51pm	Print Post
	No musket matches around here either, but we are shooting any sight 20-shot BP matches in Tacoma now on the large bull ASSRA target. Just two of us shooting, myself and national champion Rick Moritz. I manage to get second place each time.

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #12 - Aug 28^th, 2023 at 7:55pm	Print Post
	You mentioned shallow rifling. Worn down? Six groove?

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #13 - Aug 28^th, 2023 at 8:29pm	Print Post
	It is an original barrel. I haven’t put the scope in it yet but no visible pits but the lands look shallow

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #14 - Aug 29^th, 2023 at 3:16am	Print Post
	If it turns out to be a dud send it to Dave for a new liner. Whatever you do don't ask him to reline it.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Offline Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 1972 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #15 - Aug 29^th, 2023 at 1:12pm	Print Post
	I say Jack, good show, Jolly good show!
	« Last Edit: Aug 30^th, 2023 at 7:58pm by Schutzenbob »

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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #16 - Aug 29^th, 2023 at 4:50pm	Print Post
	Yours is much nicer. Mine has been sanded so much that the lettering is gone. The price was right though and I really bought it just to keep Joe happy. He thinks I buy too many Winchesters.

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Offline Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 1972 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #17 - Aug 29^th, 2023 at 6:18pm	Print Post
	Jack, I grew up with Sharps Borchardts, they're a product of genius. Borchardts are simple, strong and they work well. Since they were made long ago there are some points that wear, and the extractors tend to over-travel, but all these things can be overcome.


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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #18 - Aug 29^th, 2023 at 6:30pm	Print Post
	I haven't tried to take it apart yet. I did pull the buttstock. Someone brazed a rod and socket to the head of the through bolt so you can just use a socket wrench to remove the bolt.

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Offline Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 1972 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #19 - Aug 30^th, 2023 at 1:49am	Print Post
	Jack, Remember that to disassemble a Borchardt, the striker must be cocked.


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scharfe Oldtimer Offline A good plan today beats a perfect plan tomorrow. Posts: 502 Location: ny / pa line Joined: Dec 18^th, 2006	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #20 - Aug 30^th, 2023 at 3:13am	Print Post
	Great info. I see a Borchardt in my future.


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #21 - Aug 30^th, 2023 at 9:12am	Print Post
	Excellent picture, Bob. I like the lighting. Crisp!

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #22 - Aug 30^th, 2023 at 9:22am	Print Post
	Thanks Bob, I did read that in the De Hass book. One question, is there a reason the large screw for the lever spring is accessible through the forend? Jack

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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kensmachine Oldtimer Offline Posts: 549 Joined: Nov 21^st, 2012	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #23 - Aug 30^th, 2023 at 9:39am	Print Post
	I see in the Pattern drawing that the firing pin plug is threaded but when Sharps made them they used a pin to retain it I belive that BRC also threaded the firing pin plug Ken


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GT Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1990 Location: Northeast Wyoming Joined: Jun 28^th, 2015	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #24 - Aug 30^th, 2023 at 10:05am	Print Post
	kensmachine wrote on Aug 30^th, 2023 at 9:39am: I see in the Pattern drawing that the firing pin plug is threaded but when Sharps made them they used a pin to retain it I belive that BRC also threaded the firing pin plug Ken I remember seeing a Borchardt modified by Neidner once that had a threaded plug and the plug was shaped like an 03 cocking piece knob, and it protruded, how did the block drop then? Sorry for the thread drift... Jack, good to see you expanding your horizons.

	"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" T. A. Edison "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #25 - Aug 30^th, 2023 at 10:24am	Print Post
	I suppose I have to but a Hepburn now

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Offline Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 1972 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #26 - Aug 30^th, 2023 at 1:08pm	Print Post
	Jack, I've never been sure why Sharps put the lever-spring screw through the forend. I would guess that it was there so you could adjust the tension on the spring. ?quien sabe?


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GT Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1990 Location: Northeast Wyoming Joined: Jun 28^th, 2015	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #27 - Aug 30^th, 2023 at 2:13pm	Print Post
	bpjack wrote on Aug 30^th, 2023 at 10:24am: I suppose I have to but a Hepburn now Good Idea!

	"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" T. A. Edison "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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Old-Win Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1643 Location: Minnesota Joined: Nov 24^th, 2005	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #28 - Aug 30^th, 2023 at 5:42pm	Print Post
	GT wrote on Aug 30^th, 2023 at 10:05am: kensmachine wrote on Aug 30^th, 2023 at 9:39am: I see in the Pattern drawing that the firing pin plug is threaded but when Sharps made them they used a pin to retain it I belive that BRC also threaded the firing pin plug Ken I remember seeing a Borchardt modified by Neidner once that had a threaded plug and the plug was shaped like an 03 cocking piece knob, and it protruded, how did the block drop then? Sorry for the thread drift... Niedner built that rifle for Doc Baker. He removed the cocking plates and welded up the holes on the side and then built a new breechblock with a cocking piece similar to an O3 Springfield He then added Zischang double set triggers. For safety reasons, I think it could only be fired by pulling back on the cocking piece when ready to shoot. MP owned it until he passed and it was sold 7 or 8 years ago on Amoskeag.


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Old-Win Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1643 Location: Minnesota Joined: Nov 24^th, 2005	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #29 - Aug 30^th, 2023 at 5:45pm	Print Post
	Schuetzen Bob That rifle sure likes like the frame has a lot of Zischang influence.


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waterman Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2802 Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain Joined: Jun 9^th, 2004	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #30 - Sep 1^st, 2023 at 1:32pm	Print Post
	westerner wrote on Aug 28^th, 2023 at 7:55pm: You mentioned shallow rifling. Worn down? Six groove? Shallow rifling was for paper patch bullets. I saw an original military Borchard with rifling like that back in the 60s.


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #31 - Sep 5^th, 2023 at 9:19am	Print Post
	Been a long time since I read about Sharps rifles. I don't recall them using shallow groove rifling for paper patched bullets. I have seen Ballard rifling that was worn down from using paper patched bullets. A Rigby 38-50. Ballard and Sharps rifling is very similar. My own military Borchardt does not have shallow rifling and I don't think it has been shot much. Soon I hope to see a like new pistol grip military Borchardt. Will be interesting to look down the bore. Below is looking in Jacks new old Borchardt bore. It doesn't look worn or shallow to me. His measurements indicate that it has about .004 - 5 deep grooves.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #32 - Sep 5^th, 2023 at 11:29am	Print Post
	Wes, You will have to look down the bore yourself when you pick up your tire truing machine. Just sayin’ looks shallow to me.

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #33 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 4:00pm	Print Post
	Which eye did you use, Jack?

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11331 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #34 - Sep 6^th, 2023 at 4:54pm	Print Post
	I gotta stop at Arlington OR to give a guy sailing lessons. I might be late.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1562 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #35 - Sep 8^th, 2023 at 11:30am	Print Post
	Schutzenbob wrote on Aug 30^th, 2023 at 1:08pm: Jack, I've never been sure why Sharps put the lever-spring screw through the forend. I would guess that it was there so you could adjust the tension on the spring. ?quien sabe? From the Sharps 1878 catalog: "To Take The Breech Mechanism Apart Loosen the rear screw under the barrel. This will relieve the pressure of the lever spring."

	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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bpjack Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2496 Location: East Olympia, WA Joined: May 18^th, 2008	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #36 - Sep 8^th, 2023 at 7:47pm	Print Post
	It must stick through so the forearm does not need to be removed. Is this also the case on sporting models?

	ASSRA # 11318 Plethora? You say I have a plethora?.
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Jeff_Schultz ASSRA Board Member Offline Posts: 1562 Location: Ransomville, NY Joined: Apr 25^th, 2004	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #37 - Sep 9^th, 2023 at 6:57am	Print Post
	It is on my mid range.

	"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo “There is no situation so bad that it cannot be made worse." Confidence- The feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
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gunlaker Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2243 Location: lower mainland, B.C. Joined: Dec 13^th, 2010	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #38 - Sep 9^th, 2023 at 9:24am	Print Post
	bpjack wrote on Sep 8^th, 2023 at 7:47pm: It must stick through so the forearm does not need to be removed. Is this also the case on sporting models? I don't remember mine having that screw, but then I haven't used that rifle in a number of years. Mine was an original sporting rifle, converted to a long range configuration but with a much heavier barrel than the originals. The original barrel was in good shape and it appeared to have deep looking rifling to my eye. Chris.


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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Offline Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 1972 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: OK Wes, I didn't Buy Another High Wall Reply #39 - Sep 16^th, 2023 at 12:53pm	Print Post
	Sharps Disassembly Instructions


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