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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Ballard question (Read 2858 times)
wcf3840
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Ballard question
Jun 11th, 2023 at 7:59pm
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Got a new (to me) Ballard. It has a Peterson barrel in 33-47. The receiver has been drilled just in front of the lever and a spring loaded plunger is installed. I've never seen this before. I assume it's to keep the lever tight. Anybody have any insights?
  
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JerryH
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #1 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 9:16pm
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I have no answer about the plunger, but I sure would like to see the rest of the engraving!
  

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Re: Ballard question
Reply #2 - Jun 11th, 2023 at 9:36pm
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I have a Ballard with a hole in that area. Nothing in it now.
  

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wcf3840
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #3 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 7:45am
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Here's a picture of the engraving.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #4 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 10:21am
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Beautiful Peterson Ballard, with a very early engraving pattern! Appears to be Nimschke style. 
I've never come across a Ballard with this plunger treatment done?
  

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JerryH
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #5 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 10:23am
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Very nice rifle! Thanks for the picture showing the engraving.
  

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Re: Ballard question
Reply #6 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 11:17am
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Barrel takedown related ?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #7 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 2:06pm
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scharfe wrote on Jun 12th, 2023 at 11:17am:
Barrel takedown related ?


I think it may be too far back to be related to barrel takedown. I have a Schoyen false muzzle barreled Ballard with a Stevens style takedown screw, and the screw is right through the serial number.
  

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wcf3840
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #8 - Jun 12th, 2023 at 3:49pm
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It's not a take down pin. It has a fairly heavy spring inside which pushes it against the lever. When I took the breech block out the whole unit fell right out.
  
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John Rigby
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #9 - Jun 13th, 2023 at 10:01am
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I have an identical false-muzzle #6 Ballard with this ball detent.  I always presumed it was a feature that insured positive lock-up of the lever.
  

John Rigby
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #10 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 6:37pm
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I have a #3 Ballard with a spring loaded plunger that’s located in the same position as this rifle. It holds the lever at 90 degrees to the receiver. There are no markings on the rifle. It also has an adjustable pivot at the back of the receiver that allows the buttstock to pivot up and down. There is also a sub-breechblock inside the breechblock that has multiple levers that replace the mainspring. An arm attached to the hammer goes into a a slot in the sub-breechblock to engage the lever(s) inside it This arrangement replaces the sear engagement on the hammer. There is no felt trigger pull, just pull the trigger back and the gun fires.
I purchased the rifle from a gunshop in NJ. It was brought in to be sold on consignment. I am told the man who built it lived/shot in the Newark, NJ area.
I’ve shown the rifle to many people and no one has ever seen anything like.
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #11 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 6:47pm
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Plunger on my Ballard.
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #12 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 6:57pm
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More pics of my Ballard; note plunger holds lever in vertical position. Also, see pivot on the back of the receiver. There is a two screw arrangement on the bottom of the buttstock to raise and lower it, to adjust comb height.
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #13 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 6:57pm
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Lever
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #14 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 8:05pm
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.22Hepburn wrote on Jul 18th, 2023 at 6:57pm:
Lever


That pivoting stock setup is cool as heck! Never seen that before? I assume the tang was removed inside to allow the stock to move?
Can you show a picture from above looking down on the pivot point?
  

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Re: Ballard question
Reply #15 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 8:22pm
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Will do. Funny the mechanism stymied Dave Crossno. He couldn’t figure it out and was hesitent to take it apart.
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #16 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 9:46pm
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that says alot dave would put a screwdriver to anything to see how it was put together.
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #17 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 9:49pm
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always love that engraving pattern, simple but very stylish. Neat stock, would love to see it extended both directions.
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #18 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 9:50pm
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Ballard pivot
  
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.22Hepburn
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #19 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 9:56pm
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Screw plate located on the underside of the buttstock. There are two screws used to raise and lower the buttstock. One is turned in and out the other locks the adjustment.
Other features are; the buttstock is made up of several pieces of wood, the rifle has very checkering, it had a palm rest but unfortunately only the base is present.
  
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MrTipUp
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #20 - Jul 18th, 2023 at 10:49pm
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I assume the single-set trigger on 40-82Hepburn's Ballard is also part of the rifle's imaginative customization.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #21 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 12:56am
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don't think it's a 'set' trigger, Bill. Read the description- seems to me that but one trigger is sufficient here.
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #22 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 3:44am
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Actually, it is not a single set trigger. It has a completely different mechanism inside the breechblock, not the usual sear and mainspring arrangement. I’ll have to take it apart and post pics. 
Whoever built this rifle must have had an engineering background. The workmanship and thought that went into designing the mechanism is quite amazing.
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #23 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 7:41am
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Pics of innerds
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #24 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 7:43am
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Another
  
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MrTipUp
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #25 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 7:48am
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I assumed there was a single-set trigger because of the screw in the usual place for one.  So, does that screw have something to do with adjusting the "multiple lever system"?

In any case, I agree that you've got one heck of a user-modified rifle.  I'm envious as all get out!

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #26 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 7:58am
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Bill, the screw is for over-travel of the trigger.
After quite a bit of discussion with Dave Crossno and others, who also scratched their heads, we think this is the product of a mad genius, lol. Seriously, given the ingenuity of the design, mechanical understanding, fitment and woodwork (extensive checkering), maybe someone who built pianos (?). I think it’s safe to say that this is a one-off.
If only these old guns could talk….
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #27 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 8:49am
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Definitely most unusual! I’ve never seen a Ballard ever that was modified like this. Hope someone knows someone who know someone that may have built it! Even  Schoyen, Pope and others would have marveled at this engineering.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #28 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 9:27am
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Indeed a talented gunsmith, or machinist who likely built this Ballard for himself. The amount of specialty work done to it would have taken so much time I doubt it would be repeated as a service sold to most shooters.
What a wonderful piece of workmanship!
  

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Re: Ballard question
Reply #29 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 10:22am
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Newark has long been the industrial hub of New Jersey; in fact, one of the major industrial cities of the east coast.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if 40-82Hepburn's Ballard originated in or near there, especially considering the number of technically-trained Germans who settled in that area in the second half of the 19th century.

Speaking of piano builders, the Ballard's level of workmanship immediately put me in mind of Henry O. Studley, he of the famous tool chest.  Unfortunately, Mr. Studley apparently never ventured outside the Lowell-Boston area of Massachusetts.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #30 - Jul 19th, 2023 at 1:01pm
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That area of NJ (Elizabeth, Newark, Kearny, and Jersey City, over to Staten Island) had a very active community of matches and shooters. This rifle was certainly shot a lot, judging by the wear in the bore and feckled nickeling on the receiver and lever. 
FYI, the rifle has a #3 full octagon Winchester barrel on it. It is presently 30” long, so I’m thinking it must have at least 32” before it was cut down and put on this rifle.
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #31 - Jul 20th, 2023 at 7:39am
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Very interesting rifle indeed. Would it be possible to dis-assemble the sub-breech block which holds the trigger and see the arrangement of internal levers?
  
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #32 - Jul 23rd, 2023 at 10:25am
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wcf3840 wrote on Jun 12th, 2023 at 3:49pm:
It's not a take down pin. It has a fairly heavy spring inside which pushes it against the lever. When I took the breech block out the whole unit fell right out.


WCF,
I was able to spend a little time with a Ballard nearly identical to yours some time ago, without the plunger in place there was a tiny bit of lever droop.  The lever still cammed over and gave "Ballard snap" but then it drooped from the action about an 1/8" The plunger kept the lever up to the action when in place.  In my opinion, someone that was used to working on coil spring high walls had a hand in working on this.  Smiley
Regards,
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Re: Ballard question
Reply #33 - Jul 24th, 2023 at 9:16am
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Thanks, Greg.
  
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