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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Re-use charcoal when color case hardening? (Read 4970 times)
fishoot
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Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Apr 14th, 2023 at 1:57pm
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I do color case hardening of rolling blocks, single shot boys rifles and anything circa the turn of the 19th century.  My usual source for charcoal (Brownells) has been out of stock for about a year. I recently made my own bone charcoal from cattle ribs.  I also made some char from apricot pits.  The wood charcoal I used was from hardwood lump charcoal.  I pound the charcoal and then sift it through a 1/2" screen, rejecting the larger stuff for more smashing.  Finally I screen the charcoal with a fine mesh screen to separate the charcoal powder.  The mix of charcoal is 1/3 of each type.  It's a laborious process.  A pic of the latest effort is attached.
Processed charcoal can be obtained elsewhere, but shipping is not cheap, nor is the charcoal.  Conversely, I am frugal (cheap)!  I can make more, but it would be nice to re-use what I recover from the barrel I quench with. 
My question is, can previously used charcoal be re-used with little loss of coloration on additional go-rounds?   Undecided
  
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Tom_Trevor assra life no.71
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #1 - Apr 14th, 2023 at 2:16pm
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It would be an idea to contact others who do case work and see if they would disclose any of their trade secrets?
Or how about gathering some spare parts and trying it yourself to see the results.
Be sure to post your results as I do not think any here have an answer to your question
  
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GT
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #2 - Apr 14th, 2023 at 3:48pm
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To answer your question about reusing - I dumped my quench  water into a couple 5 gallon buckets, scooped out the used charcoal, spread it on a couple of cookie sheets and let it dry.  I reused my water which was distilled originally and I did the pack with the re-dried charcoal.  I did add a little bit to it to finish the pack.  Here's a photo of the last Ballard from this event.  I think it was a little more enhanced the second time around...  My first go was on a high wall and I didn't get quite the assortment of colors as the Ballard.

I charred bone meal for bone charcoal, fill a new, empty gallon paint can about half full, poke a hole with a 16 penny nail in the lid, cook on the barby  low heat for about 4 hours, shake frequently - did the same with hardwood blocks and I did another can with peach pits, choke cherry pits, leather gloves and boots that I shredded.  The odor from the bone meal is horrendous and the other ingredients being charred help mask this smell a little but it will gag most.
On this last one, I also purged my water with straight oxygen for about 5 minutes before the quench.
my 2¢
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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idjeffp
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #3 - Apr 14th, 2023 at 4:08pm
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Love those colors on the Ballard Greg! Was that one of Rodney's non-rebated receiver castings?

I have a friend that also re-uses his charcoal after drying in the sun. I'll share this link, maybe he will share some notes?

Was reading some Color-Case notes on one of the other forums some years back... and the gent mentioned that he took the temp down (for how long?) before removing the parts for quench. Said it reduced his warpage IIRC... Anyone here practice that?

Thanks for sharing!
Jeff P
  
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curdog
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #4 - Apr 14th, 2023 at 5:39pm
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I use new charcoal for the anneal cycle, then use the charcoal from that for the color hardening.
Bone charcoal comes from Ebonex in MI, if I remember correctly.
  
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n.r.davis
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #5 - Apr 14th, 2023 at 7:44pm
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I've read some Old, 1900's Machinist Books and there's mention of saving the Pack from the Quench and adding New Pack.  These were Companies that did Large Amounts of Case Hardening.  Not necessarily for Color but rather for Case.  Interesting to me was a study that measured depth of case per time at heat.  Pretty much all the Carbon will be absorbed in 3 hours.  Basically the Pack had given out.  Many of these Books are free to view Online but alas not on Tic Toc.😉 David
  
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AJ
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #6 - Apr 15th, 2023 at 12:05pm
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idjeffp,

This is probably the thread on case hardening that you were referring to:  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Crown-C
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #7 - Apr 15th, 2023 at 12:38pm
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AJ wrote on Apr 15th, 2023 at 12:05pm:
idjeffp,

This is probably the thread on case hardening that you were referring to:  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)



That’s a long & informative thread on color casing. I’ve read it several times over the years, but decided that no more receivers I do in a year it was more feasible to send them out to the professionals. Perhaps, if I were much younger it would be worth my while to try it. I have a lot of respect for those that take the time and effort to learn this age old art.
I often wonder who was JimD in the thread and what may have become of him. Vall participated in the discussion and may have more information.
  

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fishoot
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #8 - Apr 15th, 2023 at 1:27pm
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Thanks to all for the info.  I really like GT's advice on bone meal.  I will have to pick some up and give it a try.  I wish they had a coarser grind but I love the colors GT got!
  
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #9 - Apr 16th, 2023 at 8:17am
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Is the metal buffed or polished after the case hardening work?  Or is it finished after coming out of heat treat?
  
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #10 - Apr 16th, 2023 at 9:11am
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fishoot, the colors that you obtained on the Remington rolling block are very attractive to me, nice work!
  
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fishoot
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #11 - Apr 16th, 2023 at 9:49am
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Japcas,
The receivers I case are not touched with any abrasive after the quench.  Color is easily removed that way.  When I get the part out of the quench tank I put it in a toaster oven ( prevents domestic issues at home) and set the oven at 400 degrees for at least one hour.  Once cool enough, but still warm, I spray with a clear coat of lacquer or other clear finish, being careful to avoid runs.  Supposedly, the clear coat slows color fading.

Sure shot,
Thanks!  I like the pinks/reds that GT got with his charcoal mix!
  
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GT
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #12 - Apr 16th, 2023 at 9:55am
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japcas wrote on Apr 16th, 2023 at 8:17am:
Is the metal buffed or polished after the case hardening work?  Or is it finished after coming out of heat treat? 


Generally all that is left after the case treatment is stoning a surface or two for mating purposes.  Some folks treat the metal with a poly or finish of sorts, I'll wipe it down and coat it in a simple oil and let it sit for a few hours - it's finished.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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japcas
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #13 - Apr 16th, 2023 at 9:57am
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GT wrote on Apr 16th, 2023 at 9:55am:
japcas wrote on Apr 16th, 2023 at 8:17am:
Is the metal buffed or polished after the case hardening work?  Or is it finished after coming out of heat treat? 


Generally all that is left after the case treatment is stoning a surface or two for mating purposes.  Some folks treat the metal with a poly or finish of sorts, I'll wipe it down and coat it in a simple oil and let it sit for a few hours - it's finished.


Thanks GT.   
  
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Re: Re-use charcoal when color case hardening?
Reply #14 - Apr 16th, 2023 at 10:16am
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fishoot,
I can't really determine whether the pack gave me the reds and extra colors, it's "loud" and this action has faded some to where it's a little more tasteful now.  It is a casting from Rodney.  There's a full oven of projects currently getting ready now so if it doesn't highjack your thread, I'll post pictures? If I remember... 

I have done a few others, some with even more reds and yellows.  One of the secrets that seem to enhance the bright colors is the addition of O2.   My altitude is nearly a mile high and without it, I get mostly blues and browns.  An oldtimer told me once that charred leather introduces lighter colors but until I did the O2 nothing changed.  Temperature has a considerable effect also.  I'm not chasing hardness as much as color, for the high wear areas, I'll case specific areas with "Cherry Red" or Kasenite before doing the color process and I've had some luck with that.   At my altitude I've settled on 1325°F for the process and it gives me the best results.
another 5¢ worth of info.
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"  T. A. Edison
"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right" M.T.
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