Some people have made fast twist 38's work quite well.  Most notably is Rick Moritz in silhouette with his 1:12 twist 38-50.

Here is a thread on the shiloh forum with posts by another guy shooting a 1:12 twist 38-50 and doing very well.

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I've been curious about that cartridge for a long time, ever since Dan Theodore wrote about it.  I have a 38-50 already but have only shot it at schuetzen distances.  Gail at CPA is building me a 38-50 with a 1:12 twist.  It's just being checkered now and should be ready any time. 

Chris.

Every time the topic of shooting long range, and bullet weight, and barrel twist come up, I wonder how the men doing this back in 1874 and later ever hit a target? Based on what guys "must have" for twist rates today, it would seem an impossibility for those shooters to ever hit anything past 300 yds., and yet they somehow did so.
My old original barreled single shots shoot pretty darn good at long range with twist rates that people today say are no good. I'm sure the tighter twist rates give an advantage, but it certainly shouldn't stop someone from going to the Q and having fun with slower twist rate rifles. Just get out and practice, and see what you can hit.

Didn't I see something recently about Rick Moritz using a 45-90 in a long range match? By the way, I shoot a 12 twist 38-50 with a 16 to 1 360 grain Dan Theodore bullet.

oneatatime wrote on Apr 1^st, 2023 at 2:36pm:


For sure.  I haven't shot in America for several years, but last time I talked to him he was using the 38-50 for silhouette only, and his 45-90 for midrange and long range.  The light recoiling rifle is going to be better for silhouette, but in an all prone match like mid or long range you can use a heavier rifle to mitigate that.  Even a small amount of wind drift reduction is a big advantage at 500 and 600 yards.  Those targets are quite tricky, more so than the 800 & 900 yard targets in long range.  A small error in wind reading causes you to loose a point or two very easily. The top three spots are usually pretty tight and only separated by a handful of points.  That doesn't matter quite as much at a gong match as all you get are ones and zeros.

Chris.

We've shot Quigley several times with 38-55 in 12 twist and 360 grain bullets.  Perfectly capable, just hard to spot the hits and misses compared to 540 grain .458 bullets.

We shoot smokeless in the 38-55 for 1375 fps; shoot the same velocity with same bullet in 38-72 using black powder.   

The recoil of the 38 bullets is nice, but the ease of spotting the 540 grain 45-90 at the same 1375 velocity is an advantage.  Both bullet designs are the same, and the sight settings are the same among all three of the cartridges; enough that we just use the same setting adjustments as we change rifles/shooters at different relays.

boats wrote on Apr 4^th, 2023 at 5:14pm:


My wife misses sometimes, say goes just off the left edge when I just told her to put in 8 minutes right.  I say, Wow, thought I gave you enough, put in 5 more, and she says "I didn't believe you, so I put in 4 instead of 8".  It's a game where you have to trust your spotter, if they know what they are doing.

I bought a nice CPA in 38-50 last year.  1:12" twist that shoots the 335gr Lyman Schmittzer (if you knew Ed Schmitt, you know the story of Lymans' designer) fairly well.  I also have the MVA "Country Mile" vernier tang rear and Spirit Level Windgauge front.

As has been posted here, the spotter plays a crucial role.  Especially out to the Buffalo.

Rich

My daughter (and I a couple of the years) has shot her Marlin Ballard in 38-55 at Quigley and we have shot to our ability (the rifle can shoot better). I’m sure others can/have done better with the caliber.  In 2008 she had her best year and placed 4th overall in the women’s division with 30 hits including 4 on the Buffalo.  She has one of the rare Cody Ballard slight gain twist barrels on an original action. She uses a 330 gr Brooks 20:1 bullet carrying a fair amount of SPG over 45.5 grains of Swiss 1½ dropped 24 inches with a .06 wad, Starline brass and Rem 9½ primers. There is just a slight ‘crunch’ of compression (just to let us know we are on the powder). 

She could be a great shooter if she practiced more (wouldn’t we all), but life calls. 

Later Quigleys we switched to Blackhorn 209 to avoid the need to blow-tube and I believe it could work out as good or better – we found that 25.0 grains of Blackhorn pretty well equated to that load above with all the rest the same except we started to use Rem Mag primers – but I’m not sure that was needed. I believe in moderate conditions the 38-55 will handle itself fine. But it can blow at Q – and shooting over that cooler draw mid-day has some tricky winds. In the end, I think I shoot better because of the lighter recoil and that offsets issues with the wind (but I have NEVER been good at calling wind!).