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ssdave
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Rust Bluing
Mar 12th, 2023 at 11:50pm
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Did something today I haven't done in many years.  Tried rust bluing.

I've rust blued a Ballard receiver in the past, that was hot blued over case and had an awful color.  Just scuffed it, put on solution, rusted and boiled.  Came out an acceptable gray/black.  Haven't done any more in years.  

Today, I took a Falling Block Works model K receiver, and decided to clean it up and rust blue it.  FBW actions were well designed and made, but their finish is awful.  Not square, sharp corners/edges, etc.  I particularly hate the hammer, it's too sharp to use.  So, I squared the action up, flattened it, and worked over the hammer to a more pleasent to use configuration.  Worked over the lever to get rid of the poor belt sanded shape.  

I made a rusting chamber by taking a gallon can, slipping it into a 6 inch pipe, added a garment steamer, and plumbed in a line for attachment to an oxygen concentrator.  I can sit the can with water in the bottom on a hotplate.

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Degreased everything, put on some Pilkingtons rust blue, and put it in the rust chamber for an hour or so. 

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After steaming in a pan on my stove, suspended on a copper wire above the water, it turns black:

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Then, carded it off, added more pilkingtons, and repeated the rusting

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Repeated for a total of 3 cycles; carded it off and looks okay.  Will try one or two more cycles and then polish it up a bit better than the steel wool used to card it off.

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A few lessons learned/changes to be made.

1)  Steamer puts out too much steam, condenses on the pipe and item to be rusted.
2)  Hotplate underneath works better (I have thermostatic controlled lab hotplate).
3)  Need better setup to steam, it really needs to be a sealed container, that doesn't lose out steam where the suspension wires hold up the lid.

Other than that, I'm pretty happy with the process.

« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2023 at 11:09am by ssdave »  
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TomKlinger
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #1 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 7:22am
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Or, you could move to Florida where you don’t need any of that. I just hang mine out to the garage for a few hours to get the rust! Smiley
Tom
  
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GunBum
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #2 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 10:28am
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Looks good, but needs more cycles of rust/convert/card.

I rust out in the open, but we have 90%+ relative humidity in the summer, so rust isn’t a problem.  I also find that slower rusting works better than rapid rusting.  I use an open top steam tube for my boil/steam step.  I quit boiling a long time ago.  Just a 6” pvc pipe over a metal pan.  I get a rolling boil going in the pan, and that makes enough steam to convert the surface rust to black.  A closed top steam tube is a bomb, and also causes a lot of condensation on the parts.  Condensation on the parts doesn’t help.  I usually use at least 6-10 cycles before I quit.  The first 3 cycles I use a piece of denim to rub the part instead of traditional carding.  After that, I use a Brownells carding wheel.
  
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n.r.davis
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #3 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 1:57pm
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One thing that I found out is if the Metal is colder than my Damp Box I get Immediate Condensation which is not good.  Minnesota Winters 😟.  So I use a Heat Gun to warm things up.  How many coats are you doing? David
  
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ndnchf
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #4 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 2:27pm
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I've done a few barrels with Pilkingtons. I would run a hot shower in the bathroom for a few minutes, then shut it off and hang the barrel in the bathroom with the door closed.  It worked pretty well.
  
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craigster
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #5 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 8:08pm
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Make yourself a damp box or hang the pieces in the bathroom after using the shower as ndchf said. I've done both, but have found the RH here on the coast works just fine. I prefer to boil rather than steam the rusted pieces. The process isn't rocket surgery, it's just time consuming.
« Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2023 at 8:32pm by craigster »  
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craigster
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #6 - Mar 13th, 2023 at 8:30pm
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I also use a soft/fine carding wheel at a low RPM rather than steel wool.
  
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SBertram
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #7 - Mar 14th, 2023 at 9:34am
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My personal feeling is that most people over rust when rust bluing. I polish out all file marks and lines from more aggressive grits of paper and bring things to a 400 grit finish, then run it over a fine wire wheel at low RPM. I use pilkington's, no rust box and very short cycles in an area where the ambient temp stays below 60 degrees fahrenheit. I try to avoid any red or orange rust, prefering to boil in distilled water when the color just begins to pick up a bit of greenish hue. I really hate seeing any micropitting from the acid in my blue. This method takes more passes, usually 8-10 but I prefer the high luster finish it gives. YMMV.

(fixed it, thanks!)
« Last Edit: Mar 14th, 2023 at 10:37am by SBertram »  
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calledflyer
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #8 - Mar 14th, 2023 at 10:00am
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SB, I always enjoyed 'high lust' myself, but never needed a rusty gun to do so.  Wink Have a safe and happy day.
  
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ssdave
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #9 - Mar 14th, 2023 at 11:31pm
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Steve,  Thanks for the professional perspective, I concur on the over-etch.  I was surprised by the amount when I got the considerable red at the first etch.  I watched closer on the next two but the roughness was there.   

Since this is a learning experience, I did some forensic work.  I took 400 grit wet/dry, and polished the sides.  What that told me is that I was under-carding, it took off some of the surface roughness, and became a lot brighter and smoother.   

I decided to take off the over-etch, so continued with 400 grit on the sides and top until I took off the bluing and polished the etching out again.  It was surprising how thick and durable the rust blue at 3 coats was.  It was better than any hot blue that I've removed.  I removed it entirely, and the etch was very slight, maybe 240 or 320 grit equivalent.  The 400 readily took it out. 

As I type, I've re-coated with Pilkingtons, and I'm rusting it again, using only the hot water in the bottom of the can, with the warm hotplate and no oxygen.  I'll see if that's more controllable, and see how it comes out.
  
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ssdave
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #10 - Mar 16th, 2023 at 10:36pm
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Some in progress photos, with using slow rusting and less of it.

I did the first rust and carded it off, looked great.

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Re-rusted and carded again:

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Didn't take pictures of the next couple cycles, but here it is after carding off #4:

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It's rusting as we speak, I think I'll do one more and call it good.  Satisfied with the product, and learned some in doing it.

Now have a whole assortment of sling barrel bands, sling swivels, mauser 3 position safety, etc. to do to complete a bunch of projects.
  
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n.r.davis
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #11 - Mar 17th, 2023 at 9:24am
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Looking much better.  From my limited experience I would say you have too much Dampness and maybe a bit too warm.  How long was the last run?  I have been going about 8 hours about 82° using a old Upright Freezer as my Box.  There's a lot of Quirks to the process and it's a matter of finding out what works for your setup.  David
  
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ssdave
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #12 - Mar 17th, 2023 at 10:17am
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Did the final cleanup after the 5th cycle, and I'm happy with it.

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I'm doing some small parts now, barrel bands and sling swivel mounts and grip cap.  They're highly polished, and overnight cool rust barely rusted where the receiver would have had more rust.  They're boiling now, and turned black, will cool rust them again today while I'm at work and boil again this evening.  Learn a bit each time.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #13 - Mar 18th, 2023 at 10:37am
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Al Springer told me years ago that too wet an application causes issues, and he really wrings out his cotton balls after wetting them in his homemade bluing solution. He did a video demonstrating what he does, and I was a bit surprised to see how little moisture was being used to apply the rust bluing. 
But his results are a very high finish that's as good as any I've ever seen. I still have him do rust bluing on anything that's more deserving of a higher gloss rust blued finish.
  

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jfeldman
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Re: Rust Bluing
Reply #14 - Mar 18th, 2023 at 3:06pm
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Vall, any chance of a link to Mr. Springer's video?  And thanks for the thread ssdave!

Regards,
Joe
  
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