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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sharps Pistol Rifle Build (Read 38435 times)
dennis g
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #30 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 7:42pm
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Sorry I'm a computer troglodyte. It's item number 946221514. I just searched it using that no. and it came up.
  
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MrTipUp
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #31 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 9:17pm
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The Gunbroker example is the small frame.  Since Flayderman suggests that the pistol-rifle was made on its own action, I'd guess that a large-frame pistol might be more helpful.  I also wonder if it would be worth discovering in what ways - if any - the two sizes of pistols differ internally.

Bill Lawrence
  
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bobw
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #32 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 10:41pm
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Looks like generally Flayderman may be correct.  Looks like most of the pistol rifles were based on the larger frame but some earlier guns used the small frame.  I also read that in the 1920's the pistol was considered more rare than the pistol rifle so they were cutting down the rifles to pistols, I believe this information came from the same as what I have added with these screen shots.  Collectorsfirearms.com  and I hope it won't be a problem showing this info here.

One photo shows a comparison between the large and the small frame pistols and the other photos show features between the two versions of the rifle.

I do differ with the stock attaching on the second version though.  I'll show some picture why in my next post.

To be a bit clearer, the gun I have dimension on, is a rifle and not a pistol.  I believe it to be a second version.
Bob

« Last Edit: Sep 20th, 2022 at 10:59pm by bobw »  

Robert Warren
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle
Reply #33 - Sep 20th, 2022 at 10:56pm
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The first photo shows the bottom of the wood portion of the grip.  As can be seen there are no attaching point to the frame.

The second photo shows the top grip screws locations.  The gent that owns and took the gun apart said the the top screws were just wood screws, I did not want to challenge him on this but as I will show, I believe this is incorrect.  I'm certain the rear is a wood screw but I believe the front is a machine screw that ties the top and button grips together, as shown with the arrow.

The third picture show the threaded hole in the bottom of the front grip.  I'm certain this retains the grip cap, definitely not the wood.

In the fourth picture, at the bottom and at the arrow, is a threaded hole that I believe the top front grip screw fastens into, tying the upper and lower grips together.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #34 - Sep 26th, 2022 at 1:06pm
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I got a call from an owner of another original, he took measurement while we were on the phone, most of these cleared up questions I had from the original measurement I had gotten from another gentleman of his gun.   

So I've been working on the plastic prototype action in order to get issues worked out for a working action, and also a set of drawings that will be required in making a real working action from steel.  The plastic has been fun to work with!!

First photo is the action getting shaped up getting ready to add the working features like the lever, hammer, tumbler, firing pin and extractor. 

Second, the lever clearance cut is made and pivot pin located and bored.

3, the cartridge guide/tray cut.  This shows a 32-20 brass laying in it.  Not sure what caliber this thing will be, but I know it will not be a 32-20.  Just had it laying around so I used it for the picture..

4, Showing the lever attached to the beach block.  Laying on the frame is the first link I made.  I ended up making a slightly longer link which gave a bit more clearance inside and letting the block drop slightly lower.  The final lever will look like the one shown in the drawing.

5, Showing the breech block lowered.

I'm now working on the hammer position, tumbler and trigger.  At the same time I'll be figuring out the firing pin setup so the hammer can be shaped accordingly.

Since this gun was not a cartridge gun, it was originally a breech loading percussion, it did not have an extractor so I still don't have clue as to what the extractor will look like.  Hoping something comes up that answers this question. The firing pin and this issue is the biggest reason for the prototype action.  If anyone has some ideas, for an extractor, I sure would like to hear them, PM me if you would  please.
Bob
  

Robert Warren
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #35 - Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:01pm
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Bob,
     This is a really cool project.  As mentioned earlier, it reminds me of a #7 rolling block, but also the 1902 Webley round block.  Very interesting.  I certainly hope it is something that Rodney can make molds of for copies.  It would definitely be a fun one to put together.   
Bruce
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #36 - Sep 27th, 2022 at 12:21pm
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Bruce, Lots of if’s yet on this project, but if I get the bugs worked out, I told Rodney he could make molds from it if he wants to.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #37 - Oct 5th, 2022 at 6:52pm
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I now have a working extractor. Cheesy
After making two different extractors and three different levers!  The tolerances are fairly loose but I'm confident it will work well in the real gun.  Couple pictures.

And, I think I have the firing pin figured out...we will see.  Just got started on it late this afternoon and the hard part is coming up tomorrow.  Picture of where it is.   
My hammer is pretty funky....the real one won't be so embarrassing, I hope! Embarrassed
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #38 - Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:26pm
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Bob, Understand Solid Modeling is the way to go with CAD, but this is taking it to extremes. Wink
Keep up the good work. I like what you are doing.
Chuck
  
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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #39 - Oct 8th, 2022 at 1:55pm
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Thanks Chuck.

I think I have the firing pin issue figured out.  Grin

Here are a few pictures from different angles.  It's a bit hard to see but they show the transfer bar.  The firing pin is not in place but the hole can be seen in the center.  On the actual gun the transfer bar will be much neater, and will be made differently, but this shows the idea anyway.....not my idea though.  I have found pictures of other guns with similar transfer bars.  This one is keyed top and bottom and the keys are in the transfer bar and are really too tall. Rather than grinding a tool to cut the block for the keys, I used a cutter I had on hand, even though it was a bit too big to cut the slots in the breech block.  On the real gun I plan on both being in the breech block and much shorter.  The transfer bar will have the female groove for the keys. The firing pin will not be attached to the bar and will have a spring to retract it.  There will be a screw coming in from the rear of the breech block to limit how far the transfer bar can back out from the firing pin retract spring pressure.

I welcome any comments or suggestions of possible issues, or better ideas, with this  style firing pin and extractor.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #40 - Oct 14th, 2022 at 7:13pm
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Not real exciting....but decided to start on this thing.  Now cutting steel rather than plastic!  Now threaded for a barrel and the breech block mortise is done

Since I didn't have a piece of 8620 wide enough, used what I have.  But, had to add some steel to have something to hold on to.  The added pieces will not be part of the finished gun.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #41 - Oct 17th, 2022 at 7:26pm
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Getting more done on this rifle.  Might be getting little more interesting!

In this first photo the step is cut out from under the nose...getting ready to make it round.  I milled the front face of the frame under the nose to my specs because this is the surface many measurements come from.

Next is the frame setup in the lathe to cut the nose.

Photo 3 shows starting the cut of the nose.  This was a bit interesting with the frame offset and the interrupted cut while starting.

4. Here the nose is rough cut, it's shown as straight, the nose is actually finished as a taper.

5. The taper is now cut.  It was manually cut because it's not a straight taper, it's more of a curved taper.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #42 - Oct 17th, 2022 at 7:49pm
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The first photo is the finished and polished nose. 

Second I'm getting setup to cut the taper to the rear of the frame.  The pointed center finder was handy for getting this setup done.  The layout line are exactly the same on each side of the frame, allowing accurate placement between the two sides.  The line going somewhat straight to the right, is the measured end of the frame.....from there back, it's all tang.  The line running toward the lower left is the bore center line.  The short line running to the lower right is the angled frame line, 60 degrees from horizontal.  The location the center finder is pointing at will become the top, most rear point of the frame.

3, showing the frame line.  Lots of metal to remove.

4, like I said lots of metal.  I have cut the depth, to what will be the two tangs final width.

5, the rear section of the frame is narrower than the front.  This picture is showing the narrowing being completed.  It will become the area the trigger, lock parts and hammer shaft will fit into.
Bob
  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #43 - Oct 17th, 2022 at 7:59pm
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The rear, of the front wider section of the frame, has a radius cut.  This picture show the radius just being completed.  Had to grind a radius cutter to complete this because radius is longer going forward than going to the frame.

2, showing the mill work on one side complete.

3, both sides complete.

4, close up of the top showing width changes and radius's.
Bob

  

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Re: Sharps Pistol Rifle (added making the prototype)
Reply #44 - Oct 18th, 2022 at 11:22am
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I know almost nothing about machining, but I'm really enjoying your build and the great explanations of the steps to make this Sharps! 
Thanks!
  

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