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Rigby Ballard
Feb 6th, 2022 at 12:07am
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38-50. Was the rifle designed to shoot grease groove bullets or paper patched?
  

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Re: Rigby Ballard
Reply #1 - Feb 6th, 2022 at 10:40am
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From what I have seen in the old records I would say both. Grease groove bullets seemed to be just coming in, while patched were on their way out.
  
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Re: Rigby Ballard
Reply #2 - Feb 6th, 2022 at 12:35pm
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Thank you, Tom. I have a friend who just won a very nice rifle from the RIA auction. He's tooling up to shoot paper patch through it and I've been trying to lean him toward grease groove bullets. My reasoning being that the lands are very narrow in his Rigby and they will wear from PP.  Probably not much. I shouldn't worry. Yes I shouldn't worry about it, none of my business anyway. But it'll bug me!
  

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Re: Rigby Ballard
Reply #3 - Feb 6th, 2022 at 9:20pm
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Tom I have just recently purchased a Rem Hepburn in 38-50. It has a 30" large heavy barrel about a #5 Half Octagon. Original Remington windgage front sight
and a repo Rear Tang sight. Scope Blocks. Plain single trigger, Shotgun Butt, Pistol Grip original with checkering. A good bright shiny Bore. I feel it would make a good Bench rifle. Have a set of dies and 52 cases (Not Original). Do you have any idea what Bore and Groove diameters Remington used? Action shows good colors, not fresh a little faded but obvious. Any thoughts on Loading? Fitz. OLD TUCK. Smiley
  
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Re: Rigby Ballard
Reply #4 - Feb 7th, 2022 at 12:23pm
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Fitz Slug the bore, the old guys didn't have micrometers. I would use .38-55 loading data. I trust this is a .38-50  Remington. I have never had one in that caliber and your rifle sounds way neat. I am finishing up on Stevens Pope books, probably another month to go. Then on to Jersey City. Do you have any data, guns etc. on Arthur Elliot? Worked with Pope and a couple of rifles he made are floating around. Most unmarked. Had a Hi-wall of his years ago. It got sold/traded.
  
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Re: Rigby Ballard
Reply #5 - Feb 7th, 2022 at 5:26pm
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the old guys didn't have micrometers

In 1848, a Frenchman J. Palmer designed the form and mechanism of the micrometer as we still know it today.

By 1851 Joseph R. Brown, who would partner with Lucien Sharpe in 1853 and Samuel Darling in 1866, was already producing a pocket-size vernier caliper that was both popular and reasonably and consistently accurate.  But then at the 1867 Paris International Exposition, Brown and Sharpe first saw Palmer's micrometers.  Intrigued, they brought some back home and begin a redesign that would make the instrument more precise and easier to use.  Darling, Brown & Sharpe production began in 1868.  By at least 1877, D,B&S were producing micrometers that guaranteed accuracy to within one ten-thousandth of an inch; at least one other American firm, Victor Machine Co., was producing "standard" micrometers; and efforts were ongoing to make sure that these new instruments were available widely.

Strangely enough, the first US patent for a Palmer-type micrometer was not granted until 1899, by which time micrometers were well into mass production by several firms.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Rigby Ballard
Reply #6 - Feb 7th, 2022 at 5:47pm
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Tom I have 3 A. Elliot Rifles. I met him at Walnut Hill in the Mid 1970s. He was in the company of Allen Winsor who had known him for many years. Two of my Rifles are .22LR Scheutzens and one is a 1903 Springfield in the "T" Model style, it is stamped on the left side of the barrel "A. Eliot, Boston 1930" It has been shot with a lot of Jacketed Ammo and used hard. But from the bench at 200 Yds with Lake City Match it held the "X' ring. so I have kept it, no need to sell. The .22s are a 
#6 1/2 Ballard that belonged to Allen Winsor and he had it restocked by Kirkwood
Brothers in Boston but in the classic 6 1/2 style maybe a copy. The other is a Hiwall that was my first Elliot. I shot it for many years in Gallery club matches.
I allways shot 3 offhands and some times actually made the Team. Both of these have the Ballard style two piece extractor. They are fitted so well that you cannot see them until you carry the lever full stroke and the extractor comes out. I probably went to his home about 6 or 7 times in the late 70s. I got the impression that his Wife  was not happy with shooters showing up. When he Passed she sent ALL of his shooting associated stuff to Pete Harvey down on the Cape. He was running a business rebuilding Machine Tools. But he still had a Long bed South Bend lathe and said he could still make a Barrel from scratch if he wanted. His personal .22 LR Scheutzen was as Popes, a very heavy Barrel and the stock was rough finished on the outside, I would say it weighed in at around 16 to 17 Lbs. He was not a big guy, modest stature.  He said he worked for Pope about two years and by then he was married and had one child, a Daughter. He said when he told pope he was going to have to leave as Pope did not pay enough, he said Pope understood and told him to use him for a reference. Arthur only had to apply to one place and when they contacted Pope he told them that Arthur was the best assitant he had ever found and they should hire him right 
away. And they did. Well thats about all I have for now Tom, Regards FITZ OLD TUCK. Smiley
  
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Re: Rigby Ballard
Reply #7 - Feb 7th, 2022 at 7:28pm
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One of Cary's J. M. Pyne stories has Mr. Pyne taking on a young "apprentice" who yearns to learn the "secrets" of making Pyne's famous barrels.  The apprentice works hard, listens carefully, and eventually becomes so competent that at story's end, Mr. Pyne stamps his name on the apprentice's latest barrel as a declaration that the apprentice has indeed learned the "secrets".  In real life, was that apprentice A. Elliot?

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Rigby Ballard
Reply #8 - Feb 7th, 2022 at 11:19pm
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Tipup, I believe that may be true. In conversations with Arthur in the short time I knew him he did say he liked making .22 Caliber rifle Barrels. And he did mention that when he made a .22 Rimfire in either Short or Long Rifle and he and Pope tested it and it stood out
that Pope did not hesitate to put his stamp on it. He did say that it was not a common procedure. FITZ, OLD TUCK. Smiley
  
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